Author Topic: Radar , but needs a helper (Read 1915 times)
Offline awaken_D_M_golem
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Radar , but needs a helper
« Topic Start: December 03, 2014, 03:15:57 PM »
I was checking out the 5e really long ranges.
A few things stood out.
Barb 6 Eagle is >> Clairvoyance, with vision out to 1 mile as if 100 feet.
Warlock 2 Devil's Sight is >> Drow darkvision, with see in magic darkness out to 120 feet.
OK combine those 2.
I'm forgetting who pointed out the Observant feat. (I failed the check?)
Comprehend Languages level 1 spell/ritual, to combine with that.
Perhaps via Magical Training feat.
Fighter BM 7 is >> level 5 Divs, and more repeatable.
Especially useful is the knowing the hit points of a bbeg, for a Power Word X user.
But stretching it even further, is to go Warlock 5 for the Familiar upgrade.
Now you just need someone else (!) to Teleport it around your plane of existence.
At this point you've got a "q"uaker "h"indu divine spark of 3e DvR 1 Remote Sensing !
Barb 6 / Warlock 2 / Fighter 7 / Warlock +3 ... is a trainwreck of a build.
Kiting might be the only real possible combat role here.
Spell Sniper feat on Eldritch Blasts with a 600 foot range.
Otherwise you'd be using and losing too many arrows.
Possibly add in speed increasers here, to run away and keep kiting.
Dex Con Cha , a smidge of Wis, dump Str and Int.
Ideas and (obviously) necessary Improvements ??
:flutter
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem
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Re: Radar , but needs a helper
« Reply #1: February 17, 2015, 06:35:33 PM »
I'm feeling more confident about this idea now.
I didn't do the multiclassing requirements right.
But that only yanks a stat or 2 downward, a bit.
Barb has gotten an offsite endorsement as an Archer.
It isn't all that great, but it isn't horrible either.
Fighter 11 / Barb 6 / Warlock 3 ... is reasonable looking.
Chain'Lock can retrain in it's specific super Familiar at level 3.
Devil's Sight is still better than the Familiar, especially for combat.
Toggle back and forth 1 mile around you, then a 2nd 1 mile around the familiar.
Gaze Of 2 Minds is another option.
Barb 6 / Warlock 2+ ... can merge with a Fighter 7
Or Fighter 7 / Warlock 2+ merge with Barb 6,
though this one misses the combo by a lot more.
Either way opens a lot more build combos, with not much loss.
Still would need Warlock 5 for Devils Site + Gaze + Chain Familiar.
So that one comes fully together at level 18,
but it's comparable to what the Full Casters are doing.
BBEG has disadvantage as long as distance can be maintained.
And you don't have disadvantage. Basically it's a kiter with goodies.
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Offline sambojin
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Re: Radar , but needs a helper
« Reply #2: February 17, 2015, 08:52:23 PM »
If you could sneak the Repelling Blast invocation in there it might be useful as well. Hilarious sometimes too. Rarely do enemies expect to be thrown off a bridge/tower/cliff/chasm/city wall from 600 feet away, so it could end some encounters earlier through gravity damage. It would also assist in maintaining a 300'+ kiting range (or whatever the maximum range of your enemies is).
It's a pretty great invocation for any BFC stuff really. Remember it's a can push them, not a must. Your choice. And no other save or size limitations other than the initial attack roll. 4x10' push is pretty much a level 1 or 2 spell in itself, but yours comes with damage and is an always-on cantrip. It's also a nice way to regroup enemies for a fireball or any area attack. Fiddly, but it can be done. Especially if it's not you casting the fireball. Although the Fiendish patron is pretty nice with this sort of build, for free HP while sniping. No range is stipulated on the HP gain, just that you have to drop them to 0HP from an attack, and a potential couple of fireballs per encounter isn't awful for a long-ranged blaster to have. Theatre-of-the-mind makes long-range so much more viable for a build than grids and miniatures. But with the invocation and patron, you've got a backup plan for short-range as well.
Distant Spell from the sorcery font might be pretty handy as well, just so you can 180' range Hex and up your damage a bit. You can also give the enemy disadvantage on Str/Dex to stop them resisting any fall-splat-death attempts by you against them.
Imps and Quasits are a "has hands" type familiar, so any time you do have some battlefield preparation time, caltrops and ballbearings are your friend. Synergizes with Hex well for the disadvantage, as well as Repelling Blast to keep pushing someone back through them. Anything burny/acidy is good to drop on an area too.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 08:17:25 PM by sambojin »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem
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Re: Radar , but needs a helper
« Reply #3: February 18, 2015, 03:32:56 PM »
Niiiice.
Say like Warlock 11 / Barb 6 / Sorc 3
And going Book'Lock then is a possibility,
getting Find Familiar that way. Repelling
is a good idea, to assist getting out of melee range.
But pushing people off a bridge,
is like the ultimate assassin tactic.
Just keep the Fighter 7 far away from the action.
;)
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Offline Nunkuruji
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Re: Radar , but needs a helper
« Reply #4: February 18, 2015, 04:42:05 PM »
Yeah, feather falling is not "cheap" in item terms. Ring: rare + attunement
So gravity is pretty good
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Offline sambojin
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Re: Radar , but needs a helper
« Reply #5: February 18, 2015, 08:23:57 PM »
Still reckon you should go Chainlock. An Imp or Quasit does make the build better.
I know people tend to think they're available to any familiar finders, and they probably are, but Chainlock tends to be "This is MY familiar, from MY patron. He's in subclause 3.2/8.4/b/part iii of the contract with MY patron. He'll do whatever I tell him to do. I am literally his master. If you lot want to get stabbed in the head in your sleep, no worries. Use Find Familiar."
Since you'll have lvl 2 Sorcery spells, learning Spider Climb isn't a bad idea, just to get into position. Comprehend Languages with the Observant feat isn't out of the question either.
I'd probably run the build as a Variant Human Warlock with Spell Sniper for the feat from the get-go, so your DM knows the character type you're playing and can give you some opportunities to be useful. Sort of a scout/sniper/radar, with a bit of versatility later. Barb 6 with Eagle Sight isn't too hard to explain after your invocations come online, especially with death=HP as your basic "rage". Sorc 3 from a constant cantripper is pretty reasonable too. Don't know how I'd level it, but as a lvl 20 build, it's fairly sound.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 09:51:53 PM by sambojin »
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Offline sambojin
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Re: Radar , but needs a helper
« Reply #6: February 22, 2015, 08:25:54 PM »
Just because this is a sort-of similar build idea:
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15388.0
If you chose Distant Spell and Quickened spell as you font options from sorcery, you could multi-blast with Eldritch Blast a couple of times in a round a few times per day for the alpha strike assassin potential. With spell sniper as your lvl1 human feat, 8x10', 600' range push attacks brings this up to the level of highly amusing when it does come up. Fortresses beware!
You could choose Twinned Spell if you want, but mainly to twin Hex's concentration limits on enemies. But Hex only up's damage on a single target spell (which Eldritch Blast can be, and so can Scorching Ray), for superior mid/short range stuff. But a quickened fireball, then a normal fireball does the same damage to a group, more or less. But Hex'ing a BBEG, then pushing him around or scorching the hell out of him is great with lvl 5 spells. Fireball minions if necessary. Twinned Hex is nice for super-bounce in big mobs, but doubled damage is good regardless. Level 5 Hex continues all day anyway. Snap your fingers, Hex the next poor SOB.
Distant and Quickened is a nice all-round combination from the font. Simple, and it works. I'm pretty sure you can't burn pact magic slots for more sorcery points, but you can burn your Sorcerer slots off as you need them, as well as using them as your backup toolkit spells when required.
Umm, notes on the build:
Difficult to know what to level and why.
Awesome familiar. Invis, flying familiar.
5 invocations. Amazing E.Blast, with range, push and +char damage.
Can see everything. Probably a good idea to take perception as a skill. Voice of the Chainmaster gives you a sensor/talker anywhere. Vision is amazing in the build too.
Still great at short range. Blasty. Double Blasty.
Plenty of mobility when required (Eagle/Eagle Rage).
Draconic Sorc gives +HP and free mage armour. Fiend patron gives temp HP. Not as squishy as it looks.
2 attacks from Barbarian. Your familiar can attack when you do, for advantage etc.
Excellent BFC at range and in close.
Can be a party "face". From miles away if necessary.
Sorcerer/Warlock spell economy. Burn slots for utility, gain some if necessary. Decent slots per short rest from Warlock backing the font economy.
Nice all-round blaster/sniper/assassin/radar, way better than most Fighter builds.
Itemless. Better with items, but still solid without. Spell choice is limited, but strong.
Probably a tier 2-3 build, not too hard to play, not too powerful, but does what it does well, plus a few other things ok'ish.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:43:09 PM by sambojin »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem
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Re: Radar , but needs a helper
« Reply #7: February 24, 2015, 06:02:42 PM »
iirc there is an Item for Drow to go out into sunlight without the penalties, but it's in one of the setting books. Supposing that's available -- and why wouldn't it, with a Caster 3 in the party and some down time -- going Drow saves an Invocation slot. But teh homegame DM can quivver it his shorts over making an item.
Say ha to the "Alpha Strike" builds. This gets around that altogether. It'll take the bbeg 10+ rounds just to close the 600' gap. You're not totally forcing the DM to say Uncle, but it's close.
Barb 6 is a straightforward start.
Barb 1 / Warlock 2 or 3, starts the ranged goodies without the main trick. This feels a lot like a Fighter 1 / Warlock X build and does pretty much the same.
Barb 6 / Warlock 3 is the next milestone. At this point you've got the best pseudo-Divination in the game.
I still prefer the Observant feat, which needs Comprehend Languages. Sorc 1 handles that but I'm not sure when the best mix in spot is for that. Maybe after the level 4 feat or level 6 ability, but it delays the 'Lock 3 tie-in. Var Human can easily have Magical Training feat, hmmm possibilities.
edit --- Deep Gnomes via the back of the DMG, have 120' darkvision without the Drow sunlight problem. Still doesn't handle Magical Darkness, but adds the nifty gnome stuff.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 03:29:05 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Fun Finds: 5e Edition
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awaken_D_M_golem:
8wG , niice. Int on a Barb is kinda shaky.
But yeah, range = sight, is utterly ridiculous/awesome.
So what about using your senses through a Familiar or Chain'Lock Familiar ?!
Barb eagle 6 / Chain'Lock 3 / semi-rai Rune 1
mixes all this together, but MAD as all get out.
Might have to ditch Dex and wear armor.
Yunru has a Dex Barb guide ported to ENWorld.
Somebody previous to me, called something Radar.
I suppose I ought to come up with a new/better name.
sambojin:
Ok. Umm, more dumb stuff. With the new UA for Rune Scribes and Radar builds. It's pretty convoluted. Yes, I know echolocation doesn't work like that. But you don't really need it anyway. That's just for funsies and rules-laywering. Cast a spell, kill the hell out of someone. But when you don't cast the spell, most stuff within a mile of you can be killed the hell out of. It's good either way.
Make an Eagle Barb 6/ Moon Druid 9 thing for wildshape radar. But make sure you find a Pennant of the Vind (Air Rune) and become a Rune Scribe as well. Even one level will do.
Cast Scry on your target (the BBEG, but anyone really). You now see them.
Wildshape into a Killer Whale (so you have 1 mile eagle barb blindsight through the scrying sensor). It's now very hard for them to hide. Echolocation doesn't work like this, but if you're not deaf, it might. It's not definitely sonar (you may not have to sound "ping" them for a report), you can still passively "see" with the sound others make, and you can hear them through the scrying sensor.
Use the Shrieking Bolt complex property of your rune (with your tail or flipper) with as high of a spell slot as you can to assassinate your target. Do it repeatedly. Until they're dead. Push them off a cliff or something if the opportunity presents itself.
Have a drink and a rest. You just killed the BBEG in under an hour. Without having to go anywhere. Job's a good'un, you deserve it.
Yep. Plane wide assassination range. You don't even really need the barb/wildshape radar. Just the Scry spell and a Pennant of the Vind and a level of Rune Scribe. Everyone's a potential target. You can see them, you can kill them.
awaken_D_M_golem:
Niiiice.
Got an idea for a name.
If you can see around a whole frickin plane, that's more like AWACS.
(though with wildshape, you could go with the animals NASA or the Soviets tossed up in space)
Wilb:
--- Quote from: sambojin on October 06, 2015, 10:45:43 PM ---Ok. Umm, more dumb stuff. With the new UA for Rune Scribes and Radar builds. It's pretty convoluted. Yes, I know echolocation doesn't work like that. But you don't really need it anyway. That's just for funsies and rules-laywering. Cast a spell, kill the hell out of someone. But when you don't cast the spell, most stuff within a mile of you can be killed the hell out of. It's good either way.
Make an Eagle Barb 6/ Moon Druid 9 thing for wildshape radar. But make sure you find a Pennant of the Vind (Air Rune) and become a Rune Scribe as well. Even one level will do.
Cast Scry on your target (the BBEG, but anyone really). You now see them.
Wildshape into a Killer Whale (so you have 1 mile eagle barb blindsight through the scrying sensor). It's now very hard for them to hide. Echolocation doesn't work like this, but if you're not deaf, it might. It's not definitely sonar (you may not have to sound "ping" them for a report), you can still passively "see" with the sound others make, and you can hear them through the scrying sensor.
Use the Shrieking Bolt complex property of your rune (with your tail or flipper) with as high of a spell slot as you can to assassinate your target. Do it repeatedly. Until they're dead. Push them off a cliff or something if the opportunity presents itself.
Have a drink and a rest. You just killed the BBEG in under an hour. Without having to go anywhere. Job's a good'un, you deserve it.
Yep. Plane wide assassination range. You don't even really need the barb/wildshape radar. Just the Scry spell and a Pennant of the Vind and a level of Rune Scribe. Everyone's a potential target. You can see them, you can kill them.
--- End quote ---
So is this the semi-official return of the scry'n'die (slowly) of old, it seems. NOICE! :clap
sambojin:
Well, you can see/hear someone/some place specific on the entire plane with Scry. The barbdruid radar is just for 1 mile blindsight from that point or from your current location (blindsight isn't necessarily that much better than darkvision/normal vision, except for anti-invis). But plane wide assassination is go!
Vind'ed, Vidi, Vici.
I found a Vind rune, I Saw, I Conquered.
Some not very useful dumb stuff from Sword Coast Adventurer Guide Preview.
The mimic thing from the Mastermind rogue path seems crappy. Until you have Voice of the Chainmaster to use it with. Maybe even with the Rot Grub loudspeaker ideas from the Familiar Handbook (or literally have a frog in your throat). Pass anyone off as a local with your awesome voice. Maybe link it with scry spying so you can get the sound capture you need, but invisible imps are just as good for that.