Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Topics - awaken_D_M_golem

Pages: [1] 2
1
Offtopic / Gygax FOIA
« on: June 28, 2017, 04:12:03 PM »
Saw this on enworld, lots of views few comments, short 1 pager.

https://reason.com/blog/2017/06/15/dd-creator-gary-gygaxs-fbi-records-make

2
D&D 5th / very small rules change at the meta-level
« on: June 26, 2017, 05:13:28 PM »
Basic and SRD, which were once recognized as 2 different things,
are now being referred to as Basic, at one (only) of the official sites.
Not sure if this'll mean anything at all.

3
D&D 5th / Spell Glyph trick
« on: June 24, 2017, 03:20:41 PM »
last page of Fun Finds had 2 doozies.
The sleepless mystic power, and the Spell Glyph trick.


     

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Author Topic: Fun Finds 2017  (Read 1702 times)
Offline 8wGremlin

    Full Member
    **
    Posts: 117
    Been around for a long while
    Respect: +3
        View Profile

Fun Finds 2017
« Topic Start: March 13, 2017, 10:00:40 PM »
not see a Fun Finds thread for a while, so I thought I'd make this one:

the Mystic is out (version 3) and one of the powers is

Quote from: Adaptive Body

    Immortal Discipline
    You can alter your body to match your surroundings, allowing you to withstand punishing environments. With greater psi energy, you can extend this protection to others.
    Psychic Focus. While focused on this discipline, you don’t need to eat, breathe, or sleep. To gain the benefits of a long rest, you can spend 8 hours engaged in light activity, rather than sleeping during any of it.


could be useful for the sleepless coffee sorlock?

Logged
Offline 8wGremlin

    Full Member
    **
    Posts: 117
    Been around for a long while
    Respect: +3
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #1: March 13, 2017, 10:37:47 PM »
also - Order of the Wu Jen - Arcane Dabbler - As a bonus action, you can spend psi points to create spell slots that you can use to cast these spells, as well as other spells you are capable of casting.

does this get round the magic initiate?
Logged
Offline sambojin

    Sr. Member
    ***
    Posts: 472
    It's a game. Have fun.
    Respect: +10
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #2: March 15, 2017, 01:10:53 AM »
Seems to.

Depending on your reading of "capable of casting", it might also give you full access to any spell you could normally prepare as a Cleric or Druid, because you know them all by default as those classes.

I mean, I'm capable of casting them, no real study needed, I just didn't prepare that spell today. So I Wu Jenned that problem away.

Or is it a Wizard thing? You don't know the spell if you lose your book, and you don't know a spell until your god tells you about it each morning (they know them, not you).

It probably means "capable of casting right now, assuming I've got the slots for it", which means you'd need to have it prepared. Fortunately druid and cleric is a pretty weak spell list overall anyway, so either way is probably fine.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 01:19:10 AM by sambojin »
Logged
Offline bruceleeroy

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 130
    Hey man, what it look like?
    Respect: +3
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #3: April 15, 2017, 09:38:39 PM »
I dunno if this is an old hat find, but I stumbled across it today while reading giantitp's boards.

Quote

    Spell Glyph: You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. The spell must target a single creature or an area. The spell being stored has no immediate effect when cast in this way. When the glyph is triggered, the stored spell is cast. If the spell has a target, it Targets the creature that triggered the glyph. If the spell affects an area, the area is centered on that creature. If the spell summons hostile creatures or creates harmful Objects or traps, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and Attack it. If the spell requires Concentration, it lasts until the end of its full Duration.



Casting Glyph of Warding with a buff spell means you don't need to concentrate on the spell. You can also upcast it at higher levels, with the level you cast it at being the max level of spell you can store in it. It's supposed to be of limited use because you can't move the glyph more than 10 feet from where it was cast without the glyph disappearing.

Quote

    If you choose an object, that object must remain in its place, if the object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken and the spell ends without being triggered.


So: Bag of holding or portable hole. Obviously the portable hole is preferred, but a bag of holding would work for small sized casters. Cast the Glyphs on some pages of a book, whatever spells you like: Haste, Stoneskin, whatever.  When you have an encounter, either reach into your bag of holding or step into your portable hole, speak the triggering word, and you have multiple concentration free buffs, cast in one round.

Anyone see any holes flaws in this?

Edit: With the portable hole, you could have the whole party step in, each speak their own trigger word, and go Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers on some asses.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 09:43:40 PM by bruceleeroy »
Logged
Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline phaedrusxy

    DnD Handbook Writer
    ****
    Posts: 10291
    The iconic spambot
    Respect: +86
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #4: April 15, 2017, 11:32:56 PM »
In the d20srd, it specifies that it must be a harmful spell. I also don't see the part about it maintaining concentration for you.
Quote

    Spell Glyph
    You can store any harmful spell of 3rd level or lower that you know. All level-dependent features of the spell are based on your caster level at the time of casting the glyph. If the spell has a target, it targets the intruder. If the spell has an area or an amorphous effect the area or effect is centered on the intruder. If the spell summons creatures, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and attack. Saving throws and spell resistance operate as normal, except that the DC is based on the level of the spell stored in the glyph.

I believe the magic item that works similarly (and is reusable) might work with non-harmful spells, however. Is that what you meant?
Logged
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.
Offline Chemus

    Legendary Member
    ****
    Posts: 1898
    Respect: +27
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #5: April 15, 2017, 11:46:53 PM »
This is the 5th ed. FunFinds, pxy ;)
Logged
Apathy is ...ah screw it.
My Homebrew
Offline TenaciousJ

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 592
    AVENGE WAGON
    Respect: +19
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #6: April 15, 2017, 11:52:35 PM »
@bruceleeroy

I can find a technical flaw with the bag of holding version of the trick.  The 5e description of the item just says its interior is larger than its exterior.  It's only implicitly a portal to another plane based on its interaction with items that are explicitly extradimensional spaces, and it is referred to such in the description of other items.  Without being explicitly declared as an extradimensional space, the contents of the bag still move when the bag does.

The portable hole is explicitly a hole to an extradimensional space that would not move just because the opening moves.  Heward's handy haversack is also explicitly an extradimensional space.

Just lay down the glyph initially inside the hole so it can't ever be considered more than 10 feet from where it was laid down.

@phaedrusxy

That's a discrepancy between the physical book and the SRD then.  The physical book doesn't say the spell must be harmful, and there's no errata I can find saying as such either.  Here's the link you want.  Also, there's this tweet from Jeremy Crawford that says Fly is legal for Glyph of Warding.

It's still useful for Hex or Hunter's Mark if you rule the spell must be harmful.  The last line of the Spell Glyph option says the spell lasts for its full duration if it normally takes concentration.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 11:55:26 PM by TenaciousJ »
Logged
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA
Offline phaedrusxy

    DnD Handbook Writer
    ****
    Posts: 10291
    The iconic spambot
    Respect: +86
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #7: April 16, 2017, 12:29:49 AM »
Quote from: Chemus on April 15, 2017, 11:46:53 PM

    This is the 5th ed. FunFinds, pxy ;)

:lol
Logged
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.
Offline bruceleeroy

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 130
    Hey man, what it look like?
    Respect: +3
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #8: April 16, 2017, 12:53:45 AM »
Interesting catch on the bag of holding.

Phaedrus: get with the times, grognard!  :D

So, is this so busted that it go straight to T.O. status? Because it seems like, in the space of one action, you have every buff in the game running on yourself, so long as you had time and resources to prepare it.
Logged
Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline TenaciousJ

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 592
    AVENGE WAGON
    Respect: +19
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #9: April 16, 2017, 03:05:08 AM »
You'd be pretty ridiculous for about a minute or so if you went the buff route.  It would be more TO if you applied the idea to summoning spells instead.
Logged
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA
Offline bruceleeroy

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 130
    Hey man, what it look like?
    Respect: +3
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #10: April 16, 2017, 04:55:09 AM »
I suppose, even if you have enough buffs to auto-hit and auto-kill, you're still limited by the action economy. Unlimited summons, on the other hands....



Yea, I know there are more powerful options, but any problem can be solved with a sufficient number of apes.
 
Logged
Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline TenaciousJ

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 592
    AVENGE WAGON
    Respect: +19
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #11: April 16, 2017, 09:47:43 AM »
Quote from: bruceleeroy on April 16, 2017, 04:55:09 AM

    I suppose, even if you have enough buffs to auto-hit and auto-kill


I'm not sure there are enough buffs in 5e for that yet, and the duration is short on the majority of them.  If/when we get more spells that buff, the tactic would get more useful.  The existing buffs are too spread out amongst the casters and Glyph of Warding doesn't allow someone else to provide the spell.  You're also constrained by only picking buffs that affect a single target, and I'm not certain range: self spells are legal.
Logged
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7055
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #12: April 17, 2017, 05:12:59 PM »
A little previous edition Bag'gage of Holding? (wink)


Might quibble it's 5' of movement to put it in the bag, and 5' more to pull it out.  Might.

I read reliable triggers so long as the Glyph isn't put into the bag, but I don't think any work with it in the bag. Not sure at least.


This is asking for Warlock's 2 3rd level slots on each down time short rest.
Can raise the spell level to 4 for 4s, 5 for 5s.  Diminishing returns after that.
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings
Offline bruceleeroy

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 130
    Hey man, what it look like?
    Respect: +3
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #13: April 17, 2017, 11:40:04 PM »
The idea would be to hop inside the bag of holding and cast it in there. That way the glyph doesnt ever move until you need it.
Logged
Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline Wilb

    Full Member
    **
    Posts: 214
    Elder Lurker
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #14: April 18, 2017, 06:14:33 AM »
Quote from: bruceleeroy on April 17, 2017, 11:40:04 PM

    The idea would be to hop inside the bag of holding and cast it in there. That way the glyph doesnt ever move until you need it.


Loved it, I'm stealing your idea.


Logged
Lovely Zoma...
Offline TenaciousJ

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 592
    AVENGE WAGON
    Respect: +19
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #15: April 18, 2017, 09:57:06 AM »
Your meme needs to say portable hole for the technicality I pointed out earlier in the thread.  :P
Logged
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA
Offline Wilb

    Full Member
    **
    Posts: 214
    Elder Lurker
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #16: April 18, 2017, 01:05:20 PM »
Quote from: TenaciousJ on April 18, 2017, 09:57:06 AM

    Your meme needs to say portable hole for the technicality I pointed out earlier in the thread.  :P


Lemme try again

« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 01:13:49 PM by Wilb »
Logged
Lovely Zoma...
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7055
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #17: April 22, 2017, 03:12:08 PM »
(on going edits)

Wizard 20 can make :
9 glyph slot = 8 spell
7 glyph slot = 7 spell
6 glyph slot = 6 spell
5 glyph slot = 5 spell
5 glyph slot = 4 spell
4 glyph slot = 4 spell
3 glyph slot = 2 spell
3 glyph slot = 2 spell
3 glyph slot = 2 spell
Wiz 20 "slot" = 3 spell (1 or 2)
short rest
5 glyph slot = 5 spell (recovery)
Wiz 20 "slot" = 3 spell (1 or 2)

... so that's 14 per day with 1 short rest.
At level 18 you could use all of the Glyph slots, on the spammed 1 and/or 2
but that's kinda "iffy" tactics and you'd run out of daylight to do all of it anyway.


Variants :
Could use the Glyph 8 slot , to cast Wish , which makes up to an 8 , and it's that 8 that goes into the Glyph.
Cleric 20 misses out on a 5(+), but has a DMother-may-I chance at an extra 9 slot, to make a 9 Glyph.
Making all the Glyphs out of Rituals, ~doubles the # of glyphs, but is Obviously
"iffy" tactics, and is competing with going the Wiz 18 spam for each glyph slot.
Cleric Arcana 20, could check dmother-may-i first, then do the 8-wish-8 trick (if dm).

edit --- added Wiz 20 into the mix recounted, changed stupid to "iffy", Cleric Arcana.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 01:37:14 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings
Offline altpersona

    Legendary Member
    ****
    Posts: 1798
    #78
    Respect: +25
        View Profile
        You are here

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #18: May 12, 2017, 10:00:03 AM »
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HylrvQGx-
Logged
The goal of power is power. - 1984
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow
The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga still sux.
Offline Wilb

    Full Member
    **
    Posts: 214
    Elder Lurker
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #19: May 13, 2017, 07:32:07 AM »
Quote from: altpersona on May 12, 2017, 10:00:03 AM

    http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HylrvQGx-

It seems to be a very nice list of options, but the Magic Planeshift options are almost hidden in the formatting of the last page.
quick fix.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 07:39:13 AM by Wilb »
Logged
Lovely Zoma...

    Print

Pages: [1] 2   Go Up

Links referenced
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HylrvQGx-
http://5e.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/829104094589616128

4
D&D 5th / Out of the Abyss , map
« on: June 23, 2017, 04:03:17 PM »
Awesome pic, enlarge it so you can read it.

link ---> http://www.enworld.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72102&d=1448559332

5

http://web.archive.org/web/20150401154620/http://brilliantgameologists.com:80/boards/index.php?topic=394.0

I think its all there

Ahh, perfect.  Thanks for the link.

**

link to the ENWorld mirror of the original
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471542-Treantmonk-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-a-God-in-D-amp-D-3-5-%28Treantmonklvl20-CantripN-Tsuyoshi%29

I think that's all of it = way better than googlecache of BG or mmB.
BG gets to Abj and dies. --- Need to get this first page for missing stuff.
mmB stops before Abj.
ENWorld is good.  Not good enough.


EDIT = NOPE still don't have the spells.
EDIT = NOPE on the NOPE mostly

page 2 of the BG thread googlecache link

page 3 of the BG thread googlecache link

page 4 of the BG thread googlecache link
... has perhaps some of the same comments as the ENWorld link

page 7 of the BG thread googlecache link (no evidence of 5 or 6)

Not all there.

Scribd might have a full copy of the guide part, idk don't have access.
https://www.scribd.com/document/294941226/Treantmonk-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-a-God
googlecache of that, and formatting looks bad

possible archive location of at least some of it
http://archive.li/zxPE6


edit#3 --- put the wayback link to the top, and thanks again.

6
D&D 3rd / Me , my?self , and taI'l
« on: June 21, 2017, 05:23:25 PM »
This'll be my l'il corner.
Don't troll my kitty avatar's "tiLe" just yet ; 'cept
the pronunciation is now Crocodile Hunter -esque.

My most tagged saying, thanks to PhaedrusXY's pimpage :
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Random-ish quote that affects a Divine Mind with Dilate Aura.
vazRe: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #139: June 06, 2014, 07:27:58 PM »
Encounter is frequently "assumed" to be 1/minute thanks to the wording on Skill Tricks, IIRC?

Dragon -> Feral Rearing -> to qualify for template X

The Enabler t.o. early qualify for the MOI cleric dual caster at level 3, get 10:1 gear including >> top magic item, must be the fluff restrictions.  Rest of thread turned into a punpun discussion.

7
D&D 5th / What feats from 3e or 4e, are powerful enough to convert ?
« on: June 20, 2017, 04:57:19 PM »
Post away , and archive thread.


Part 1
(click to show/hide)



Part 2 (much shorter)

(click to show/hide)

Post Away !

8
It'll do now now, needs prettied up ... but I'll bet CapQ has it.

(click to show/hide)

9
Resource & Handbook Submission / Divine Magician handbook
« on: June 20, 2017, 04:28:42 PM »
EDIT --- it's not pretty , but it'll do for now.

Divine Magician part 1

(click to show/hide)


Divine Magician part 2


(click to show/hide)

10
Small but important part of the  "Hatchet Job Port Thread".
I have the googlecache LINK of the above posted already, but it's not pretty.



Offline Toptomcat

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 150
    I'm new!
    Respect: +19
        View Profile

Re: Hatchet Job Port Thread
« Reply #19: April 11, 2013, 12:11:49 AM »
Consolidated List of "Bargain Bin" Spells for Artificers
by Iskajir

As an artificer, you get spells/gp, rather than spells/day. Here are a few ways to stretch your gp and craft reserve. The most obvious way to get a spell at the least cost is by choosing the lowest class level available, which often lowers the minimum caster level of your scroll or wand. This also adds more possibilities for wands, and eternal wands.

Further down, you will find spells that are much improved by using the fast spell progression of Ur-Priest, Divine Crusader, and Beholder Mage. If you need a scroll fairly early in your career, or if CL doesn't matter much, it may be worthwhile to compare costs. Ur-Priest uses the Cleric list. Beholder Mage uses the Sor/Wiz list. Divine Crusader uses domain lists. I am going to, slowly, consolidate a list of high level scrolls useful to 5-7th level casters. Excluded are spells with costly material components, focuses, or large XP expenditures; spells that are very CL dependent; spells that still aren't worthwhile. Be aware that these are not balanced at all in lower-optimization games.

Finally, there is a section of links to sources to further stretch your budget in very high optimization games, and for TO exercises.


~I still consider this Work-In-Progress, and would like to know if I missed anything, misspelled anything, or need to adjust formatting for easy use, let me know.




Books Explored- I won't promise that I didn't miss something good.

PHB, DMG, UA, PHB2, DMG2
Complete Adventurer/ Arcane/Divine/Warrior/Champion/Scoundrel
Races of Stone/the Wild/Destiny/the Dragon
Frostburn/Stormwrack/Sandstorm/ Cityscape/ Dungeonscape/  Drow otU/ OA
BoED/BoVD, Savage Species, Mini's HB,
Elder Evils, Manual of Planes, Planar HB, Tome of Magic, FC1, FC2, Tome of Battle, Draconomicon, Magic of Incarnum, XPH, Dragon Magic, Drag Mag Comp,
Heroes of Battle/Horror
Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis
Eberron: CS, Faiths, Magic, Sharn, 5 Nations, explorers
FR:CS, UE, Magic, Monsters, Faiths, Waterdeep, PG, Power, Dragons, Races, S. South, Spider Queen, Lords of Darkness, champs of Valor/Ruin, Silver Marches,
DL: CS, Towers of High Sorcery, War of the Lance


Level 0 Spell

Deathwatch (Healer, MH)
Silent Image (Gnome Ill, RoS)
Ventriloquism (Gnome Ill, RoS)

Level 1 Spells

Animal Messenger (Rgr)
Arcane Lock (Thayan Slaver, FR-UE)
Arcane Sight (Trapsmith, DS)
Barkskin (Nentyar Hunter, FR-UE)
Bear's Endurance (Sand Shaper, SaSt)
Blindness/Deafness (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Bull's Strength (Sand Shaper, SaSt)
Calm emotions (Consecrated Harrier, CD)
Cat's Grace (Sand Shaper, SaSt/  Trapsmith, DS)
Clairvoyance/Clairaudience  (Trapsmith, DS)
Cure Light Wounds (Clr)
Cure Moderate Wounds (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Darkness  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Darkvision (Darkness Domain, BoVD)
Delay Poison (rgr)
Detect Thoughts (Truth Domain, RoE)
Dispel Magic  (Trapsmith, DS)
Fox's Cunning  (Trapsmith, DS)
Frostburn, Lesser (Disciple of Thrym, FB)
Gaseous Form  (Trapsmith, DS)
Haste  (Trapsmith, DS)
Identify (Cloi Clr, UA)
Invisibility  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Knock  (Trapsmith, DS / Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Lay of the Land, SpC (Rgr)
Levitate  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Leomund's Trap (Gnome Ill, RoS)
Magic Mouth (Brd)
Magic Vestment (Artificer, ECS)
Make Whole (Balance Domain, SpC)
Minor Image(Gnome Ill, RoS)
Obscure Object (Brd)
Produce Flame (Drd)
Protection From Energy (Trapsmith, DS)
Remove Paralysis (Healer, MH)
Resist Energy (Rgr)
Restoration, Lesser (paladin)
See Invisibility (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Silence (Court Herald, FR-PoF)
Shadow Mask -SpC  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Shadow Spray- SpC  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Speak with Animals (drd)
Spider Climb (Prime Underdark guide, FR-UD/ Spider Domain DotU/Slayer of Domiel, BoED)
Tasha's Hideous Laughter (brd)
Undetectable Alignment (Brd)

Level 2 Spells

Air Walk  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Animate Dead (Death Master, Dragon Magazine Compendium)
Arcane Eye (Trapsmith, DS)
Bestow Curse (Demonologist, BoVD)
Blacklight- SpC  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Continual Flame (S/W)
Cure Serious Wounds (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Daylight (Consecrated Harrier, CD)
Dimension Door (Trapsmith, DS)
Displacement  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Fire Trap (Drd)
Gentle Repose (Clr)
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (Trapsmith, DS)
Heroism (Brd)
Hold Person (Clr)
Illusory Script (Gnome Ill, RoS/ Assassin)
Improved Invisibility  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Keen Edge (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Locate Object (S/W)
Magic Circle vs Evil (Demonologist, BoVD/Exorcism Domain ECS)
Magic Circle vs Good (Demonologist, BoVD)
Major Image (Gnome Ill, RoS)
Nondetection  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (Trapsmith, DS)
Rage (Brd)
Reduce Animal (Drd)
Remove Blindness/Deafness (Healer, MH)
Remove Disease (Healer, MH)
See Invisibility (S/W)
Snare (rgr)
Speak with Plants (Rgr)
Spike Growth (Rgr)
Stone Shape (Trapsmith, DS)
Stoneskin (Trapsmith, DS)
Suggestion (Brd)
Tongues (Brd)
Tree Shape (Drd)
Vampiric Touch (Corrupt Avenger, HoH / Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Wind Wall (Air Domain)


Level 3 Spells

Bigby's Interposing Hand (Trapsmith, DS)
Break Enchantment (Trapsmith, DS)
Charm Monster (Brd)
Command, Greater  (Thayan Slaver, FR-UE)
Command Plants (Rgr)
Confusion (Brd)
Contagion (Clr)
Control water (Watery Death domain, FR-UD)
Crushing despair (Brd)
Cure Critical Wounds (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Darkbolt- SpC  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Deathward (Dread Necromancer, HoH)
Detect Scrying  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Discern Lies (Pal)
Dispel Magic, Greater (Trapsmith, DS)
Divination (Oracle Domain, SpC)
Divine Power (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Dominate Person  (Thayan Slaver, FR-UE)
Evard's black Tentacles (Blackwater Domain, StWr)
Fabricate (Trapsmith, DS)
Fear (brd)
Fire Shield (Warmage, Comp Arc)
Freedom of Movement (Nentyar Hunter, FR-UE/Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Geas, Lesser (brd)
Glibness (Brd/ Initiate of Vecna, RoD)
Hold Monster  (Thayan Slaver, FR-UE)
Ice Storm (Warmage, Comp Arc)
Illusory Wall (Gnome Ill, RoS)
Invisibility, Mass  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Magic Weapon, Greater (S/W)
Mislead  (Telflammar Shadowlord, FR-UE)
Neutralize Poison (Drd)
Planar Binding, Lesser (Demonologist, BoVD)
Poison (Drd)
Remove Curse (Clr)
Repel Vermin (Rgr)
Restoration (Healer, MH)
Scrying (Brd)
Shout (Knight of the Chalice, CW)
Wall of Stone (Trapsmith, DS)

Level 4 Spells

Analyze Dweomer (Bardic Sage, UA)
Animal Growth (Rgr)
Atonement (Emissary of Barachiel, BoED)
Baleful Polymorph (Hexblade, CW)
Bestow Curse, Greater (Demonologist, BoVD)
Blight (Drd)
Commune with Nature (Rgr)
Contact Other Plane (Hexblade, CW)
Cure Light Wounds, Mass (Healer, MH)
Dismissal (Clr)
Dispel Chaos/Evil/Law/Good (Pal and UA variants)
Dream (Emissary of Barachiel, BoED)
Flame Strike (Drd)
Insect Plague (Savage Bard, UA)
Legend Lore (brd)
Mark of Justice (Pal)
Mind Fog  (Thayan Slaver, FR-UE)
Persistent Image (Gnome Ill, RoS)
Planar Binding (Demonologist, BoVD)
Righteous Might (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Sending (Clr)
Sequester  (Thayan Slaver, FR-UE)
Summon Giants (Disciple of Thrym, FB)
Transmute Mud to Rock/Rock to Mud (Blighter, CD)
Tree Stride (rgr)
True Seeing (Urban Ranger, UA)
Unhallow (Blighter, CD)
Veil  (Thayan Slaver, FR-UE)
Wall of Fire (s/W)


Level 5 Spells

Antimagic Field (Runescarred Beserker, FR-UE)
Antilife Shell (Blighter, CD)
Bigby's Clenched Fist (Duskblade, PHB2)
Chain Lightning (Duskblade, PHB2)
Create Undead (Blighter, CD)
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (Healer, MH)
Disintergrate (Duskblade, PHB2)
Forbiddance (Blighter, CD)
Harm (Blighter CD)
Heal (Adept)
Heroism, Greater (Brd)
Plane Shift (Clr)
Polar Ray (Duskblade, PHB2)
Programmed Image (Gnome Ill, RoS)
Scrying, Greater (Bardic Sage, UA)
Shadow Walk (Brd)
Stone to Flesh (Healer, MH)
Suggestion, Mass (Brd)
Undeath to Death (Dread Necromancer, HoH)
Wall of Iron (Shugenja, CD)


Level 6 Spells

Antipathy (Blighter, CD)
Banishment (Clr)
Charm Monster, Mass (brd)
Control Weather (WuJen, Comp Arc)
Creeping Doom (Savage Bard, UA)
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (Healer, MH)
Finger of Death (Blighter, CD)
Otto's Irristible Dance (Brd)
Project Image (Brd)
Regenerate (Healer, MH)
Repulsion (S/W)
Restoration, Greater (Healer, MH)
Shout, Greater (Brd)
Sunbeam (Summer Domain, SaSt)
Vision (Bardic Sage, UA)
Waves of Exhaustion (Dread Necromancer, HoH)
Wind Walk (Clr)
Word of Recall (Clr)

Level 7 Spells

Animal Shapes (Animal Domain)
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (Healer, MH)
Earthquake (Earth Domain)
Fire Storm (Drd)
Phase Door (S/W)
Refuge (Clr)
Reverse Gravity (S/W)
Screen (Trickery Domain)

Level 8 Spells

Heal, Mass (Healer, MH)
Shambler (Blighter, CD)
Symathy (S/W)

Beholder Mage List Bargains

9th level Spells (available at 7th level)
Foresight, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Meteor Swarm, Shades, Weird, Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop, Magic Miasma, Summon Elemental Monolith (+100gp), Transmute Rock to Lava

8th level Spells (available at 6th level)
Mind Blank, Superior Invisibility

Ur-Priest/Divine Crusader List Bargains

9th level Spells (available at 7th level)

8th level Spells (available at 6th level)
Veil of Undeath

4th level Spells (available at 2nd level)
Glibness (Commerce Domain)

Links for TO/Very High-Powered Games


Minimizing Caster Level
Logged

    Print

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7   Go Up

11
The rhetorical question, is jeopardy answered ... what is Magic Items are Not Optional.



Author Topic: Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity  (Read 967 times)
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity
« Topic Start: June 09, 2016, 11:54:01 PM »
So the "optional nature" of magic items is a thing I hear repeated about 5E. Out of curiosity's sake I decided to compile a list of monsters who have resistances and immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage to nonmagical weapons. This does not include monsters whose damage resistance/immunity can be overcome by nonmagical materials such as silver, adamantine, etc. Nor does it include monsters from non-core sources such as adventures.

While I realize that weapons are but one small fraction of overall utility, it is a useful starting point due to the fact that the Fighter and martial classes are highly reliant upon weapons. And since just about every D&D group uses the Monster Manual, even more so.

Monster Resistances/Immunities

Resistance to non-magical weapons

Angel, Deva

Angel, Planetar

Angel, Solar

Banshee

Cambion

Demon, Balor

Demon, Glabrezu

Demon, Goristro

Demon, Hezrou

Demon, Marilith

Demon, Nalfeshnee

Demon, Quasit

Demon, Shadow Demon

Demon, Vrock

Demon, Yochlol

Elemental, Air

Elemental, Earth

Elemental, Fire

Elemental, Water

Galeb Duhr

Ghost

Grick

Grick Alpha

Intellect Devourer

Invisible Stalker

Magmin

Mummy

Peryton

Salamander, Fire Snake

Salamander

Scarecrow

Shadow

Spectre

Sphynx, Gynosphynx

Succubus/Incubus

Vampire

Vampire Spawn

Water Weird

Will-O-Wisp

Yugoloth, Arcanaloth

Yugoloth, Mezzoloth

Yugoloth, Nycaloth

Yugoloth, Ultroloth

Immunity to non-magical weapons

Couatl

Demilich

Empyrean

Kraken

Lich

Mummy Lord

Rakshasa

Sphynx, Androsphynx

Tarrasque


Summary

A huge amount of resistant/immune monsters have a lot of features in common. A fair bit are entities from other planes and undead. A few of the immune ones are legendary, high-CR creatures such as the Empyrean, Kraken, Lich, and Tarrasque. They made thematic sense; undead are resilient and in folkore are known to be hardy save for a few weaknesses. The only ones which threw me for a loop where the Sphinxes.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 11:57:46 PM by Libertad »
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline linklord231

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3270
    The dice are trying to kill me
    Respect: +48
        View Profile

Re: Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity
« Reply #1: June 10, 2016, 12:28:25 AM »
When I read the section on Silvered weapons in the PHB, before the Monster Manual came out, I assumed that silvering your weapon was the solution for this.  But apparently it's not, and that disappoints me.

Do you know what percentage of the MM this represents?  Is there a level band where 100% of monsters of that CR are resistant to non-magic weapons?
Logged
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.
Offline TenaciousJ

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 592
    AVENGE WAGON
    Respect: +19
        View Profile

Re: Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity
« Reply #2: June 10, 2016, 08:17:25 AM »
Let's break down one example from the list.  The Deva is CR 10.  The DMG says the HP range for a CR 10 creature should be 206 to 220.  The Deva has about 35-39% less HP than its CR would indicate.  Its 17 AC is on point for its CR, and the DMG recommends that all its resistances are effectively worth a 1.5x multiplier on HP.  That multiplier would make its effective HP 204, fairly close to the suggested range.  It should actually warrant being higher than CR 10 based on having magic resistance and flight, but the creature's damage per round falls below the CR 10 range into CR 7, which should balance it out decently.

Let's look at other CR 10 creatures that aren't on the list.

Aboleth: 135 HP
Dragon, Young Red: 178 HP
Dragon, Young Gold: 178 HP
Golem, Stone: 178 HP
Naga, Guardian: 127 HP
Slaad, Death: 170 HP

All are below the suggested HP range for the CR.  Each one has something that contributes defensively that warrants a decrease in HP compared to what is suggested for CR 10, though the aboleth is a weak outlier based on personal experience.

Also worth noting for the Death Slaad is that it has a bunch of elemental resistances but none against weapons, and the Guardian Naga has 5 good saving throws but again no special defenses against weapons.

5e's CR system would seem to be based around the idea that parties have magical and non-magical damage capabilities and that some monsters play to strengths and weaknesses of different classes.  The argument that some creatures are strong against the skill sets of certain classes applies to more than just the martial classes.

How many creatures on the list of creatures with weapon resistance/immunity have multiple elemental resistances, more then two good saving throws, and/or advantage on magical saving throws?  A lot of what is listed are just supposed to be exceptionally tough creatures for their CR without specifically screwing over martials.  The rakshasa for example is immune to spells 6th level or under unless it chooses not to be.  Any party composition is going to find a rakshasa relatively tough.

We have a great argument for why every party in a no-magic-items game should have a member or 2 who can cast Magic Weapon/Elemental Weapon on the martials.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 08:22:31 AM by TenaciousJ »
Logged
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7050
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

Re: Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity
« Reply #3: June 10, 2016, 04:04:03 PM »
... Blade'Lock 3 , or less effective things
like the Green Flame Blade cantrip.
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings
Offline Nunkuruji

    DnD Handbook Writer
    ***
    Posts: 887
    I shall bring great terror
    Respect: +13
        View Profile

Re: Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity
« Reply #4: June 10, 2016, 09:21:01 PM »
Without magic weapons, most of the classes can still access magic weapons or consistent magic damage via essentially forced archetype.

However, I think Barbarian, Ranger and Rogue are entirely screwed. While the latter may option spells, I don't think any of them can option consistent round to round enchanted weaponry.

Furthermore, only Fighter is going to have the built in Constitution saving throw proficiency to most consistently maintain magic weapon concentration.

TJ illustrates the CR problem in that the resistance effective HP either means a lot in no magic items, or next to nothing in a magic item campaign.
Logged
Offline TenaciousJ

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 592
    AVENGE WAGON
    Respect: +19
        View Profile

Re: Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity
« Reply #5: June 11, 2016, 01:34:05 AM »
I see it as more of a system issue than a class-specific issue.  The Magic Weapon spell is not self-only, so in a no-magic-item campaign it's perfectly viable to have someone else cast it.  A lot of the enemies that require it also have various high defenses against magic, so it's not like it's a cake-walk for casters.  "Casters buff frontliners" isn't a new strategy that came about in 5e.

The Monster Manual has big problems with the highest CR creatures being the average of below CR damage combined with above CR defenses to make an "epic" encounter.  Hopefully the next monster book will go the other direction.  I'm fine homebrewing my own high offense/low-average defense creatures, but I'd appreciate the help from WotC.
Logged
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7050
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

Re: Magic Items Optional? Nonmagic resistance and immunity
« Reply #6: June 11, 2016, 03:11:38 PM »
Magic Elemental Adept feat houserule / adaptation.


So the flow chart goes something like:
A) ... % chance of randomly getting those monsters = gateway
B) ... specific tactics list that work against it
C) ... whether those tactics are any good or taxes or cheap or expensive
D) ... what's a DM to do / how this changes the game?

Because it absolutely changes the game !!


And the obligatory nobody plays Perma Forced Vow Of Poverty.
Except for a couple of internet loudmouths.
(on the off chance they care about >> 99% of the market)

Probably needs a fix, sorta like the 4e PHB2 auto bonuses + the 4e oops feat taxes.
Preferably better than both for 5e.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 03:13:18 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

    Print

Pages: [1]   Go Up

12
Other RPGs / 2e ... Old School Ascension , by BetaSquirrell
« on: June 19, 2017, 04:15:54 PM »
Not pretty, but it'll do. 
Backed-up at ---> http://secretsofthearchmages.net/Threads/WOTC/2008/D20%20Design%20-%20Theoritical%20Optimization/972688.html


Old School Ascension [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime   Post
BetaSquirrell

01-01-08, 10:57 AM   A new edition is coming around, and all our builds will soon be outdated, so I thought I'd put up some really outdated optimization - from 2E. In the 2nd edition DMG, there was a table for creating custom classes as an optional rule. The gist of it was that you went through tables and cherry-picked what you wanted, and each selection gave you a number. At the end of class creation, you added all those numbers together and got a total (which was probably quite large).

You took this total and used it as a scalar on the DMG's sample xp table, and you got the xp progression for your class. This allowed you to play your 'I can do ANYTHING' character, but you would take about ...30-ish times the amount of xp to level up as your fighter buddy. (Yes, I checked).

Well, this was one of the few places in the 2E manuals that allowed for real customization besides race selection, spell picking, and ability scores. “So,” I thought, “it must be breakable!” Boy was I right! Once I figured out that there were no limits, I was able to construct the following class, using the minimums for everything:
The Punster - 2E
# Reason
0 Race: Human only
-4 Combat and saves: As 0-level human (terrible, and they never improve)
-1 Armor: None allowed
-1.5 Weapons: Limited (4 total weapons for class, none can do more than 1d6)
+2 Hit Dice: d4 until level 9, +1 per level thereafter (minimum allowed)
-2 Alignment: Lawful Good
-1 Special: Can possess only 6 magic items
-.5 Special: Must carry all possessions
-1 Special: Cannot associate with bards (I dunno, I don't like bards.)
-.5 Special: Must donate 10% of all treasure
+9 May learn and cast 3 schools of magic: Necromancy, Conjuration/Summoning, Illusion
--------------------------------------
-0.5 TotalWhat does this mean? Well, assuming you play a Human Punster 1, at level 1 you are just a limited wizard. But you actually have 100 more xp than the next level requirement at start of play! Because the scalar is negative, your xp table actually got inverted, so at 0xp you have 100 more than was necessary for level 2 and 14,000 more than was necessary for level 9, meaning that you start the game at level <infinity>!

In fact, the xp for level 99 would be, based on the chart’s instructions to increment the base by 30,000 for each level past 10, (30,000*89+28000)*(-0.5)=-1349000, which means that you have completely eclipsed level 99 by the beginning of character creation! And because you started with 0 xp, and didn't gain it in an encounter, you are immune to the rule that states: 'you can't gain enough xp in one encounter to advance more than one level'.

So, what do you get? Instant access to the highest powered summoning spells, the prismatic array, and Wish (along with the sweet necromancy and illusion spells). And, here's the good bit, instant access to 10th level magic from 'Player's Option: Spells and Powers' (or whatever it was called).
Fwib

01-01-08, 11:17 AM   I never considered taking the multiplier down below 0.25 - negative xp to level is pure cheese.
Ed-Zero

01-01-08, 12:56 PM   Since we're talking about 2nd Edition, got any info on playing HackMaster? I play weekly and we're quickly getting into a position that we will die or at least some of us.

Right now I'm a Fighter/Cleric (most of the group is dual classed so it's nice to level at the same time) and since we might die, I've been looking extensively at the Monk class. It seems pretty crazy, being able to do more damage than a fighter with a weapon pretty much at any given level.

Any ideas on how to optimize it in any way? (I don't have access to the Hackmaster DMG or MM)
BetaSquirrell

01-01-08, 08:07 PM   I never considered taking the multiplier down below 0.25 - negative xp to level is pure cheese.

Heh. Thanks. My first idea was to get the multiplier to be 0, but then I thought that if that was the case you'd still have to go through one encounter to get that 1 xp.

Ed-Zero: Sorry, can't help you - I never played hackmaster. As I recall, though, the Cleric Handbook monk was pretty nice.
Fwib

01-02-08, 10:24 AM   I can't find my original notes, but I think I picked:
Human-only(+0), RogueCV(-1), Best Saving Throws(+0), d3 HD(+0), All Armour(+0), Limited Weapons(-1.5), 1 hp/level beyond 9th(+.5), One Initial Proficiency Slot(+.25) Cast Any Priest Spell(+8), Two Alignment Restrictions(-2), Cannot Keep More Than Can Carry(-.5), Donate 10%(-.5), Ethos(-1), Cannot Associate with class+alignment(-2)
Total(0.25)

Ahhh... memories.
awaken_D_M_golem

01-02-08, 04:56 PM   That is realy, really, "f-bomb" brilliant !!
And the FCC ruled in his favor, because the f-bomb didn't refer to sex or scatological stuff ... ;)


This is like DC Zero epic spells, and then using the SR seed to make DC negative epic spells.
Bravo, and congrats.


Personally, I have a 2nd Edition based build, that I'm waiting for 4th Edition to come out.


RENAME your build, period.

And how exactly do you plan on grabbing the power(s) of the gods; all of them; and more ?!
BetaSquirrell

01-02-08, 07:52 PM   This is like DC Zero epic spells, and then using the SR seed to make DC negative epic spells.
Bravo, and congrats.Thanks!

And how exactly do you plan on grabbing the power(s) of the gods; all of them; and more ?!
By using rules from Legends and Lore, which, IIRC, had rules about becoming a demigod that I should easily be able to complete with my p0werz. :)

Did I beat you to the punch? ;) I don't mind sharing the credit for 2E's ascensions if you want to incorporate this (assuming your method is different and we didn't think of the same thing).

If you've got a build, though, keep in mind that I reach level Infinity at 0xp, so you'll have to ascend really fast. Of course, if you use the same trick you might be able to get there first, assuming you have some clever combo.

Oh, yeah. Did anyone else notice that you can add ANY ABILITY for a +3 mod? As in, Manipulate Form 2E style?

By the way, Fwib, what DMG were you using? According to mine, there is no d3 and you are missing something like -11 for 'cannot associate with any class or alignment.' As it is, you can associate with any class/alignment except two. So you have more leeway than you think!
Fwib

01-03-08, 11:55 AM   Using TSR 2160 AD&D Dungeon Master(r) Guide published April 1995, the black one with muscular humanoids on the front smashing through a door.

I didn't consider applying 'cannot associate' more than once each for alignment and class, since it would be a) cheesier and b) it restricts the rest of your party and c) it doesn't say you can in the book I have.

If I get the chance to play 2e again, I shall certainly try to squeeze in a custom-class character though, even if I can't get away with a ludicrously low multiplier. :)
BetaSquirrell

01-03-08, 06:51 PM   Ah. I'm using an older DMG. That would explain it.
NiteCyper

01-27-08, 01:44 AM   Omfg, this reminds me of the coding/mechanic for Pokemon leveling in RBY. Something about negative levels causing you to insta-jump to level 100 because of some random coding... Err, just search the trick. It involves Mew at level 7?
BetaSquirrell

01-27-08, 04:10 PM   That's probably integer looping. That might be the issue. I remember, back in my old CSci class, learning about inefficiency, where the number of Fibonacci calls outpaced Java's integer class, showing negative calls. Another time, my lists would perpetually show strange numbers of held items and (on one occasion) a simple chess board was described as infinitely large. It got to be a pain in the neck when I had to write some calculator program and kept hearing that 20,000 + 20,000 was negative.
NiteCyper

01-27-08, 08:21 PM   Um... Okay.
awaken_D_M_golem

01-28-08, 04:53 PM   Hey, the computer guys 'Solved' Checkers. All answers/moves now known = always stalemate.

ALL nite cyper ?!

My 2nd Edition DMG has the different # on the cover than what Fwib has.

BS - can't say I understand your method yet, but ...
it looks to me like you have:
Some Infinite things, and Some Infinite Casting.

Good stuff.
BetaSquirrell

01-28-08, 07:20 PM   Yeah. I think I have infinite stats too, but I forget how...I think there's an epic thingy to get them. But yeah, I've got infinite <a lot>. I think that's enough. Anything a caster can do, I can do (and with Epic whats-it-called I can do a lot more). I actually have a nice THACO, and my Saves (while sucky) can be improved ad nauseum IIRC.

As to DMGs, I have the one with a wizard casting some sort of spell (MM?) at a Great Wyrm. I used to have the other one with the kick-in-the-door guys, but I gave it away.
awaken_D_M_golem

06-13-08, 04:31 PM   bump

:bump:
Chemus

06-17-08, 09:08 PM   Infinite stats would be accessible via infinite wish spells, IIRC. 2e's been a while for me.

Outside of outright godhood, as I recall, you only get access to 9th level spells as a wizard-type caster.

10th level spells are relegated to gods normally, I think. Your wishes, however would own!
awaken_D_M_golem

08-09-08, 04:09 PM   bump again ... don't want to lose this one, even if it's not really d20-ish.

:bump:

13
D&D 3rd / 4e Epic Destinies official conversion to 3.5e
« on: June 19, 2017, 04:10:36 PM »
The Tarrasque, Epic Destinies, and You
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZYSNUQx1vLMJ:www.minmaxboards.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D4570.0+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
... official (!) conversion of 4e Epic Destinies for 3e.


14
D&D 3rd / Safe spell trading protocol (almost of it) , by taltamir
« on: June 17, 2017, 03:34:33 PM »
Still need Help! to recover the first 2 pages of discussion - iirc the most informed.


EDIT :
Here's the predecessor thread over at giantitp ---> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?144744-scrolls-suck-for-learning-new-spells-EDIT-Spell-trade-protocols-roleplay-info
Has enough of it, with discussion meandering.


google drive ---> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_nGit2j6auDKCPnYEJx-ekXwF9iFh35csCe5hYmoxo/edit
original post
D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Safe spell trading protocol, and how by RAW wizards actually do have libraries
« on: October 26, 2013, 10:32:15 PM »
I had encountered some formatting issues with posting this, so here is a cleaned up version on google drive
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_nGit2j6auDKCPnYEJx-ekXwF9iFh35csCe5hYmoxo/edit?usp=sharing
However, it turned out it was mostly issues with the WYSIWYG editor, once I disabled it I was able to properly format this post.
End edit

I always see people refer to "buying scrolls" in order to learn new spells as a wizard. However, buying scrolls is the worst possible way to acquire new spells known as a wizard. From best to worst they are

1. The best is to acquire spells known via levelup, boosted by the collegiate feat, elven generalist substitution, and aerenal arcanist feat if needed.

2. Free spellbook to spellbook copying. This is either a quest reward, the result of joining a guild, looting it off a corpse of an enemy wizard, or stealing it from a still living enemy wizard or just trading spell X for spell Y (you let me copy haste from your book, I will let you copy fly from mine). The only cost is the magic inks, a mere 100gp per page, or nothing with a blessed book. This is ideal for a party containing more than one wizard.

3. A more pricy way to achieve the above is to a pay a wizard for the right to copy a spell from him. The standard fee for this is 50gp per spell level for the right to copy, plus standard scribing costs (100 GP per page in magic inks, or nothing with blessed book)

4. The final and least effective way is to use a scroll. It destroys a consumable item that cost both GP and XP to create, whose value is at a minimum (for a minimum CL scroll with no expensive material component or XP component) 25*SL*(SL*2-1)+100*SL
Where SL = Spell level.
SL*2-1 = Caster level.
The +100*SL is waived if you have blessed book.
This cost skyrockets for a spell with an expensive material component or XP cost, such as wish. (a scroll of wish costs an additional 25,000gp beyond the baseline 9th level spell cost due to the extra 5000XP it requires to create such a scroll)

Thus, scribing a 9th level spell with no material or XP component costs the following with each method:
1. free
2. 900gp, or free with blessed book.
3. 1350gp, or 450gp with blessed book.
4. 4725gp, or 3825gp with blessed book. +cost of spell's material component + 5gp per XP cost to cast the spell.

As you can clearly see, scrolls are the worst way to learn a new spell.
Interestingly with a blessed book you turn a profit on levelup by putting the free levelup spells in a mundane book (or better, copybooks, explained later) and then copying it for free into your blessed book. You could then sell the mundane books for 50gp a page. However, it is better to keep them as a backup.
Additionally you could break the economy by buying a blank blessed book, filling it up with spells, and then selling it. But you really shouldn’t.

Safe spell trading protocols:
Dangers of traditional methods: when a wizard sells access to his spellbook for purpose of copying spell to another wizard s/he does not know or trust, there are various risks to both the buyer and seller.

The buyer might be trying to steal the seller’s spellbook, the seller might plant a trap his spellbook to incapacitate and rob the buyer, both have to meet and do their research in a distracting public place, or one of them needs access to the other’s sanctum. Once they familiarize each other with their spellbooks, and know where the traps are, they can kill each other with impunity to steal the other’s spellbook. Also, the seller should spend the whole day with the buyer to ensure that his book does not leave his sight. Even if the buyer himself is not hostile, a third party might target both when the seller has no access to his book.

All of these possibilities are rather unlikely, most wizards would not resort to such trickery, especially if they wish to share spells with other wizards in the future. But the possibility exists. Therefore, a series of simple protocols to allow safe and lucrative sharing of spells between wizards must be planned.

Protocol: A blank spellbook costs a mere 15gp, a wizard can copy a spell he already learned from his spellbooks to a new book and pay only half the price in magic inks and take half time (2 spells a day). Which means it takes 50gp per page to scribe. This 50gp is not wasted, as a spellbook is valued for sale at 50gp per filled page. The typical cost for “the right to copy” a spell from another’s spellbook is also 50gp per spell level (page). This all adds up very neatly.

Spells (with the exception of very low level spells such as cantrips) should each be copied into a single spellbook, called a copybook. Here is a chart detailing the cost of creating such copybooks, their resale value/right of copy value (the two are the same)

Spell Level|cost to create copybook|value of copybook = copyright price = total price to a buyer with blessed book|scribe cost for buyer|total cost to buyer without blessed book
1|65|50|100|150
2|115|100|200|300
3|165|150|300|450
4|215|200|400|600
5|265|250|500|750
6|315|300|600|900
7|365|350|700|1050
8|415|400|800|1200
9|465|450|900|1350

When a buyer contacts a seller requesting to buy a spell, the seller can hand him a book containing only that spell. The buyer pays in advance for the copyright cost, and puts down a deposit equal to cost of creating the copybook. Thus a person wishing to copy a 5st level spell will pay 250gp, and 265gp deposit. He will receive his deposit back when he returns the copybook to the seller.

At worst, a dishonest buyer steals the copybook. The seller made full profit, but has lost one day’s work due to the theft (time it took to create the copybook). (had the deposit not included the 15gp cost of a blank book, the buyer would have actually made a 15gp profit by stealing said book; so even though the market value is X, the deposit should be X+15gp)

At worst, a dishonest seller has disappeared with the deposit. The buyer can then keep then seller’s copybook to sell the same spells to others. He has lost the choice on whether to make a copybook for that particular spell, but has gained 1 day of labor.
In either worst case scenario the buyer and the seller do not lose any money

These worst case scenarios assume no true malicious intent; it is always possible for either of the two to really be assassins trying to gain access to the victim. Either could place a deadly trap in the copybook, or the seller could provide a fake copybook written with non-magical ink (and thus useless).

The solution to that is quite simple, conjure a celestial monkey (summon monster 1) and have him read the copybook alone and away from others. It will trigger any traps; at absolute worst destroying the book.
At higher levels, the exchange can be made via a lantern archon who has been lesser planar bound.

Minor extra savings: Each spellbook contains 100 pages, weighs 3 lbs, and costs 15gp by RAW. It might be possible to create custom “copybook” with just the right number of pages, at a lower cost. (say that 15gp is actually 5gp for the cover and 1sp per page … a 10 page book would thus be 6gp)… not a big issue really.

Roleplaying Info:
Common criticism:
Quote

    "Oh, no! My wizard won't have access to every arcane spell in existence, for free, despite that such a strategy would have invalidated all conflict within the setting.”

to be fair, there are only a FEW spells you must have. a wizard determined to break the game can “win DnD” even without thousands of spells. and ~90% of the most broken spells are in core anyways. If anything, scribing a ton of spells is a trap, it wastes your money and time, which could have been spent better (time can be spent killing monsters for XP or casting spells for money, money can be used to buy items that increase CL or Int, etc).

For the leery DM:
If you feel this is overpowered there are ways to rein it in. You can say that EVERY wizard trades spells via copybooks in their free time and that the free spells gained on levelup actually come from the profit such trading provides. Sometimes this also means a wizard buys spells copybooks with higher level spells that s/he cannot use yet, so if you are in a dungeon and leveled up, it is assumed you had copybooks of your new spells which you carried with you. All those buying, selling, and hoarding is abstracted and assumed to only gain enough cash to finance the acquisition of those free spells at levelup. Every wizard is also assumed to have a wizard library with a copybook per each spell they know, and some they haven't learned yet.
Feats that give extra spells on levelup (ex: collegiate), actually means that you spend extra time trading spells rather than extra time training (some other feat).

This method of reining it in does not necessarily mean banning the acquisition of new spells via this protocol. It merely means that a PC cannot just point out this method to the DM and say “give me a bunch of free money”, if they want to make a profit with this they have to spend time in game positioning themselves as a major supplier, the same as if they wanted to run a merchant guild who corners the corn market. They can still use their WBL to buy extra spells beyond those that are granted by your class levels and feats as normal. (aka, it is assumed to you trade enough to finance the acquisition of 2 new spells per level; buying more cost WBL).

With some calculations, you can determine how many "buyers" each wizard will come across per week to maintain the 2 free spells per level if you do want to micro-manage this aspect of the game.

World building and Role-playing implications:
Every wizard actually has a library instead of one book. The library is made up of copybooks of spells known (created by yourself, or purchased), and copybooks you purchased of spells you don't know yet (level too high).

It also means that you can't just point at this thread and say to the DM "give me more money/spellbooks"... rather, you have to actually do something in game to position yourself as a high volume trader in spells (just as you would have to do something to position yourself as a high volume trader in magic items, silk, jewels, etc etc). A "low volume trader" (someone who never spent in character time setting up shop) is the traditional adventurer wizard, whose copybook trading merely funds his 2 free spells per level, nothing more, nothing less.

NPC wizards who never adventure probably have 2 of each "copybook" of their known spells; potentially in different locations. They use multiple small books to memorize spells each morning.
While adventurer wizards probably have 1 travelbook with all their spells (which they carry) and in additional to that 1 copybook per each spell (at their sanctum).


15
D&D 3rd / the Power of the Duergar , Prime32
« on: June 17, 2017, 03:14:33 PM »
Got all the good stuff , missed 2 or 3 posts at the end that included a blooper by me. 
Cleaned up.  Some sblock to spoiler mising.
     
Topic: The Power of the Duergar  (Read 8490 times)
Prime32

The Power of the Duergar
« Topic Start: April 14, 2013, 10:35:22 PM »
Posting the complete stats here for convenience, since the MM and SRD only tell you how to modify standard dwarves.
(click to show/hide)
Duergar isn't a very commonly-played race, and there are reasons for that. The LA and -4 Cha are kind of painful. The immunities are useful, but it's easier to just go warforged or necropolitan. The SLAs are handy on a non-caster, but 1/day is too limited for a PC (there's Magic in the Blood I guess).
However, they do have one thing going for them.
Quote
    Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—enlarge person and invisibility as a wizard of twice the duergar’s class level (minimum caster level 3rd); these abilities affect only the duergar and whatever it carries.
A caster level way higher than normally possible, without even requiring any levels in a spellcasting class. As clarified by Complete Arcane, you can use this caster level to meet Caster Level and Arcane Caster Level prerequisites (but not Spellcaster Level).

EDIT: Lesser duergar (Player's Guide to Faerun) get the enlarge person SLA for LA +0. So does the slightly-weaker lv0 Savage Progression duergar. The psionic version of duergar in the XPH only have an ML equal to their character level, but their expansion is far more useful than the standard enlarge person since it scales by level (and they still have a minimum ML of 3rd). Frost dwarves (Planar Handbook) have some SLAs with a caster level equal to character level +2. Quanak lizardfolk have PLAs with an ML of 12, though they need some conversion for 3.5.

So what kind of tricks does this get you?
    Taking the Craft Wondrous Item and Brew Potion feats at lv1, before wizards or even artificers can get them. You qualify for wands and magic weapons/armor (plus constructs) at lv3, rods at lv5, and rings and staves at lv6. Finally dwarves can be the master craftsmen they deserve to be, even if it's only the bald evil ones. You'll still need some way to meet the spell prereqs though (recommended: artificer 1, warlock 12, or an assistant). Chameleon levels could be useful for the floating feat.
    You qualify for Acolyte of the SkinCA at lv3. It's not the most impressive PrC, but a 1-level dip will get you a poison SLA that helps qualify for Arcane Trickster. If you pick up mage hand from a feat like Spell HandBoED then you can even qualify for Arcane Trickster at lv4 with no spellcasting to advance, which is... a thing I guess.
    Taking Obtain Familiar at lv1. Unfortunately, due to the wording on the feat you still need levels in arcane spellcasting classes to advance its abilities. You do, however, unlock Improved/Celestial/Dragon/Planar Familiars faster. You can also take the Spell-Linked FamiliarPHB2 feat to grant it an arcane caster level equal to your character level (plus the normal benefits of that feat).
    Entering Effigy MasterCA with only 1 level in a spellcasting class, and building effigies with 45 HD (or more with bloodlines/legacy champion). You still have plenty of room in your build to specialise in Mounted Combat, then use a mecha-tarrasque as your mount.
    Qualifying for MindbenderCA at lv3 (with the Aberrant Dragonmark [charm person] feat or a spellcasting dip), unlocking early access to Mindsight.
    Qualifying for Sand ShaperSand at lv3.
    Being a Wis-based character with Arcane Focus ItemDr358, Imbued DefenseDr358 and Imbued StrengthDr358
    Qualifying for Blood MagusCA at lv3.
    Entering Enlightened FistCA with no levels in a spellcasting class.
    Qualifying for the "X of the Mage" feats from Dragon #359, at half the normal level: Countenance, Ears, Eyes, Footsteps, Hands, Name, Presence and Voice. In particular, Name of the Mage has an enormous save DC.
    Qualifying for some feats like Evasive ManeuversEoE, Extra RingsECS, ProteusEoE, Vatic GazePHB2, Wand MasteryECS and Wand SurgeMoE.
    Becoming a lich with only 1 level in a spellcasting class (by Nunkuruji)
    Taking levels in BattlesmithRoS and/or Ironsoul ForgemasterMoI to stack their caster levels with your own when crafting magic weapons and armor. If he also has a major bloodline (preferably Titan) and the Practiced Spellcaster feat, then a duergar wizard 5/ironsoul forgemaster 10/battlesmith 5 would have an effective caster level of 100.
Anything else interesting?


Concerned Ninja Citizen
« Reply #1: April 14, 2013, 10:49:32 PM »
Taking only lv0 of the Savage Progression gives you the Enlarge Person ability (and thus the caster level) without the LA.
Doesn't look like you can qualify for Sand Shaper early, though. It requires Touchstone which requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (Local). Didn't read the feat carefully. You can take it and Sand Shaper seems like one of the more interesting things to do with a Duergar. Can't really be a sorcerer, though, which is the class that benefits most from the additional spells known. Beguiler, maybe.


Arz
« Reply #2: April 15, 2013, 04:30:26 PM »
Quote from: Prime32 on April 14, 2013, 10:35:22 PM
        Making Master Spellthief even more ridiculous.

Pretty sure that feat only stacks class levels for caster level.


Nunkuruji
« Reply #3: April 15, 2013, 04:39:27 PM »
Meet the Lich caster level requirement


awaken_D_M_golem
« Reply #4: April 15, 2013, 04:52:24 PM »
V Niice.
iirc - CPsi has a racial class progression for it.


Prime32
« Reply #5: April 15, 2013, 10:09:52 PM »
Quote from: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 14, 2013, 10:49:32 PM
    Doesn't look like you can qualify for Sand Shaper early, though. It requires Touchstone which requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (Local).

Or use an item from the area of the touchstone as part of the ritual. You don't need the ranks.


awaken_D_M_golem
« Reply #6: April 16, 2013, 07:07:54 PM »
The CPsi racial class gives the psi-likes at level 2
... and it changes the ML to 1/2hd, minimum of 1.
Invisibility normally requires 3 CL.
Hey yet another  :puke  CPsi nerf.
No XPH errata, or changes to the SRD.
EDIT --- conflicts with CNC's link too.


awaken_D_M_golem
« Reply #7: April 16, 2013, 07:15:22 PM »
Early entry Caster 1 and support
Ardent 1 because you need a progression
although the others would do fine
(Ps) Invisibility qualifies as 2nd level power
Dual Caster PrC A 10
Dual Caster PrC B X
EDIT --- hey the SRD has these as psi-likes, not spell-likes.
double edit --- and it has them as spell-likes in the Dwarf section.
wtf


awaken_D_M_golem
« Reply #8: April 16, 2013, 07:22:51 PM »
The (sp) version gets a CL of 2x Character Level.
That's gotta have tricks written all over it.
Super early CLs = drooling Wizards.


PlzBreakMyCampaign
« Reply #9: April 17, 2013, 09:41:45 PM »
I love Duergars. The Cpsi racial class is only useful for noting what to do with the one difference (besides the psionic version of the SLAs at ML=HD) between regular and psionic differences: 3pp. The psionic version of the savage progression would look like this:
(click to show/hide)
It's quite nice for a bruiser that dumps charisma and even strength if going the con to damage route.


Garryl
« Reply #10: April 17, 2013, 09:58:34 PM »
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on April 17, 2013, 09:41:45 PM
    Naturally Psionic: At 1st level, duergar gain 1 bonus power point. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability from another source, such as levels in a psionic class. Power points do not allow a character to make use of psionic feats and attempt to gain psionic focus.

What's with the "do not" in there regarding power points, because normally having power points does let you use psionic feats and gain psionic focus. Besides, the Expansion psi-like ability would let a Duergar take psionic feats anyways, power points or not.


Keldar
« Reply #11: April 18, 2013, 11:19:54 AM »
Just more proof that CPsi is the worst 3.5 book published.


Nunkuruji
« Reply #12: April 18, 2013, 12:56:52 PM »
There's also a number of feats in Exemplar's of Evil that have a caster level requirement that could potentially be met early, though I'm not sure any of them are particularly exciting.


 awaken_D_M_golem
« Reply #13: April 18, 2013, 06:11:23 PM »
Duergar (sp) version.
Expansion is Psychometabolism.
Invisibility is Illusion (Glamer) = Telepathy
... take either specific Psiotheurgist feat.
Spell Focus feat on same school.
Ardent 2+ and LA buy-off.  Gets some early
entry going on without going dual caster.


 Lo77o
« Reply #14: April 19, 2013, 08:00:07 AM »
Don't know if anyone mentioned this yet. But you can play as a lesser Duergar as well. Page 190 in Players guide to Faerun. That gets rid of some of the abilities, but not the caster level. And you loose the level adjustment.


Concerned Ninja Citizen
« Reply #15: April 20, 2013, 02:32:27 AM »
I mentioned the other way to be an LA0 Duergar but this version is actually slightly better. You get all the same stuff as the savage progression and +2 to hide and move silently. Also might be acceptable to more DMs since it's in a book rather than on the internet.


 awaken_D_M_golem
« Reply #16: April 20, 2013, 04:00:46 PM »
So what is that ... five different versions?
I hope they were getting paid by the word ...  :tongue

Ardents:
Psymetab
2) ... Touchsight is kinda a lesser Trueseeing
3) ... Metamorphosis + Metamorphic Transfer feat

Telepathy
2) ... next level retrain into Solicit Psicrystal
3) ... Psi Dominate + Psicrystal feat
edit --- this one only works with the LA+1 version without the racial prog

Ouch those hit hard.


Prime32
« Reply #17: April 20, 2013, 04:38:09 PM »
On a related note: XPH duergar with the Telepathic AffinityCP feat meet the prereqs for Thrallherd without levels in a psionic class (they still need to take the Inquisitor feat). Any character can use this feat to qualify, but they have to wait until lv10. All kalashtar qualify at lv10, or at lv5 with the Kalashtar MindlinkSoS feat.
Lv1 of thrallherd doesn't advance manifesting, so you have nothing to lose by entering this way. If you have at least one level in a manifesting class though, you'll get more mileage from Practiced Manifester.


awaken_D_M_golem
« Reply #18: April 21, 2013, 03:34:57 PM »
And who can resist a little Thrallherd?
Bloodlines advance both the CLs and MLs = even more earlier hijinks.


 PlzBreakMyCampaign
« Reply #19: May 03, 2013, 01:17:24 AM »
Quote from: awaken_D_M_golem on April 20, 2013, 04:00:46 PM
    So what is that ... five different versions?

Oh, there's more where that came from. Don't forget the Transition class (just in case you wanted to take a duerger variant and make it into a dwarf)
I'm also posting this one in the fun finds: Durzagon, Half-fiend [MMII 124]. It seems to have a scaled down version of the Savage progression as I'll highlight below. At 5RHD at LA+3 (stupid update!) we can do better via some back-tracking and level-draining.
I'll post the vanilla Duerger to vanilla Durzagon, Half-fiend changes first:
(click to show/hide)
Now here's how much 2 LA of the Half-fiend Savage Progression should give Durzagon: (Red is missing on the Duragon, Blue is extra)
(click to show/hide)
Therefore a Non-half-fiend Durzagon makes these change to a regular Duergar:
(click to show/hide)
Let's not also forget that all Duergar are just a variant of dwarf, so we can have other variant dwarves as duergar too. This doesn't come up much because dwarves are incredibly good to start with, so their variants are usually lacking. Here's a good one though:
(click to show/hide)
Earth Dwarves
(click to show/hide)
Don't forget Badlands Dwarves [Sa43] have no +2 stone stunning or +2 appraise/craft bonus (so it goes back to normal with the above) but get Heat Endurance & 48+conx2 hours before dehydration.
Aquatic Dwarves have +2str, -4dex and 20' swim.
Why not add the usual suspects:
(click to show/hide)
Updating the Savage Progression (or "lesser" if you want +2 to hide and move silently) for a Aleithian, Aquatic, Amphibious, Earth, Arctic (Ice-Dwelling), Psionic, energy-drained Durgazon who, as a Humanoid, trades the first RHD in for a class level with the Willing Deformity and Deformity (Obesse) feats:
(click to show/hide)
Feel free to go Wild Dwarf [RoF25] if you really need to be small. Embed some Quori Shards and be Huge for 10 hours a day rather than 3.33. Great as long as the DM doesn't level your character up in his sleep.
Edit: TWO YEARS LATER, I reworked and tracked all of the above (which has some mistakes). PM me if you want the spreadsheet, but I didn't realize that Half-Fiend is LA4 and fiendish is LA2. This makes non-duergar durzagons even more powerful, thanks to their LA-2 ...


16
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vnufoZAMTqUJ:www.minmaxboards.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D9625.0+&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Wondering how many of these eventually made it over in full, to mmB ?
And how many have already been archived, here at mmF and by Giles ?



Got over list:
Consolidated List of "Bargain Bin" Spells for Artificers --->  http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=253.0

17
Other RPGs / D&D Timeline
« on: June 16, 2017, 05:36:40 PM »
quick hack, will expand soon.

D&D Timeline
was a personal fave + save of mine, and maybe Giles already has either some or most of it.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0YzN7PyLYYoJ:www.minmaxboards.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D16384.0+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b

EDIT --- don't use this one, use the one below.

18
     

Pages: [1]   Go Down
Author Topic: [Archive] ... Odd optimization project: minimizing caster levels  (Read 1235 times)
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7022
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

[Archive] ... Odd optimization project: minimizing caster levels
« Topic Start: September 24, 2015, 05:15:00 PM »
by JulesCarv
I think I can fit this into 1 post, but maybe not, so wait a smidge ...

**

Minimizing caster level: why would anyone want to do such a thing? The idea is that an artificer's item-creation abilities are caster-level based. As such, an artificer who goes by the minimum caster level of a cleric can't scribe a scroll of miracle until level 15 -- but going by other classes, they might get it sooner. Here's what I've come up with so far.

Cleric spells -- accessible to an ur-priest. Caster level = spell level, if the ur-priest has no spellcasting before entering the prestige class, or cleric spellcasting. (5th level spells have minimum caster level 5, etc).

Domain spells -- accessible to a divine crusader. One again, Caster level = spell level.

Sorcerer/Wizard spells -- here, things get a bit more confusing. There are two ways of getting high spell-level/low caster-level spells here.

A bard/sublime chord gets accelerated casting. Since this is a silly theoretical optimization exercise, we might as well push it as far as we can: let's take an illumian bard 1/rogue 9 with precocious apprentice and improved sigil (krau). She becomes a bard 1/rogue 9/sublime chord 1, able to cast 4th and 5th level bard and sorcerer spells with a caster level of two. From then on, progression is a bit more normal: 6th level spells require a caster level of 4, 7th require 6, 8th require 8, and 9th require 10.

Level 2 sorcerer/wizard spells also are accessible with a CL of 1, via precocious apprentice.

Level 3 sor/wiz spells still require a caster level of 5, as far as I can tell. It's a bit odd: you can cast level 0, 1, and 2 arcane spells at CL 1, then you need CL 5 to cast level 3 arcane spells, then you go back down to CL 2 to cast 4th and 5th level arcane spells.

Bard spells -- well, I think this is mostly covered by the bard/sublime chord combination for bard spells of level 4 or higher. Bard has another weird "hump" in CL: level 0 spells have minimum CL 1, level 1 spells have minimum CL 2, then level 2 spells go back to minimum CL 1 thanks to precocious apprentice. Spell level 3 -- well, the best I can come up with is CL 6, which is barely better than the default of CL 7. That's the caster level at which a chameleon can cast level 3 arcane spells.

Depending on whether aptitude focuses are usable for item creation, the chameleon provides a bit of help for both arcane and divine spellcasting CL minimization for level 2 spells: they can cast them at chameleon level 1 with a CL of 2. From then on, chameleon spellcasting quickly becomes a worse and worse deal for CL minimization: level 3 spells at CL 6, level 4 spells at CL 10, level 5 spells at CL 14, and level 6 spells at CL 18.

The blighter could be addressed, but in truth, I don't feel like bothering. Its spell list is so thoroughly mediocre that the divine crusader, ur-priest, bard/sublime chord, and such probably make it completely obsolete.

So... for an artificer, this means that 9th level cleric and domain spells can be scribed onto scrolls at level 7, since artificers can meet item creation prerequisites two caster levels higher than they are, and can scribe 9th level sorcerer/wizard spells at level 8. Furthermore, polymorph is available at level 1 for an artificer.

**

julesCarv ---
Update: I failed to take into account the feats Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection. With those, every spell, I believe, is accessible with a caster level of 1, when combined with other tricks (ur-priests, etc).


xaktsaroth ---
Not sure if I'm popping a bubble here, but you do realize that when your crafting an item, you can set the CL to your current CL or anything lower, right?


T_G ---
Actually I think CustServ said if you don't have the minimum caster level to normally cast the spell you can't... I would seek a verification of this statement though because it's coming out my random memory bank.


aDMg ---
Commoner 1 Proxies are casting Domain spells at caster level 11, and that's even on the 7s 8s and 9s.
Presumably an item of X can be made from said castings.
Efreet and Noble Djinn are spell-like-ing Wish at caster level 12.

Ardent 2 / Caster 1 with tricks / Cerebremancer or Psychic Theurge 10,
with Psiotheurgist feat from Dragon #349, gets 3rd level powers at 3rd, 4s at 4th, etc.
but then you take ExpandedKnowledge and pick a power that is not part of the Psiotheurgist double count, and EK works with any power and 'surprise' your manifester level on that power is just your Ardent manifester level.
EK at 6th level would give you a 5th level power, but only 5ML if it's not on the Psiotheurgist feat.

Chasing T_G's statement:
This may have bearing over here ---> linky {dead link}
Now, I know it's CustServ , but they do have Caelic in their corner.

so I clicked the link, myself.
The concensus, led by Mommy Was An Orc, seems to be :
Example True Strike - makes no reference to caster level in it's entry, hence it works.
Example Fireball - references caster level, hence 4d6 or 3d6 or even 1d6 fireballs BUT spell fails at 0 caster level.


ed209 ---
Sublime Chord has access to the entirety of the Sorcerer/Wizard and Bard spell lists, not just spells of 4th level and above. Such a character is allowed to add lower level spells (0-3) to his known list with something as simple as Extra Spell, and just requires caster level 3. Some other useful low level lists that occur to me (not sure if they add anything useful) are Nar Demonbonder, Suel Arcanamach, Holy Liberator(mostly Paladin), Pious Templar(Paladin or Blackguard), and Consecrated Harrier(Ranger). Anyone got one for Druid?


callix ---
The trick here with Mage Slayer is that it is possible to cast almost any spell with a caster level no higher than 5. (Ur-priest 9 with no cleric and Mage Slayer). Thus a 3rd level artificer can create any spell-dependent magic item, because he can create any item that requires a CL of 5 or less. Since the item could be created by a reverse-optimised character of CL 5, he can make it. Cubic Gates anyone?


aDMg ---
I was perusing CPsi and found
"Dimension Door, Psionic" has two negative augments. This allows a 4th level power to be -fested at 3pp.
Githzerai get "Plane Shift, Psionic" at 11th level; it's a 6th level power at 6 ML.
This establishes that Psionic powers can be manifested at a lower ML/pp than standard.

Just reread the Thrallherd.
It discounts Psi-Charm way below it's original cost, all the way down to 1pp.
So psionic powers can be manifested for a lower pp cost than what's listed.
It just takes more machinations, than those cheesy Wizards and Clerics take.


crimsondeath {not sure who he quotes}
   let's take an illumian bard 1/rogue 9 with precocious apprentice and improved sigil (krau). She becomes a bard 1/rogue 9/sublime chord 1
No, she doesn't. An Illumian Bard 1 with Improved Sigil Krau knows four cantrips, which her Improved Krau Sigil can Heighten to level 1 spells. You need either another level of Bard, or a level of pretty much any other arcane spellcasting class.


archerpwr ---
bard 1/ wizard 1/ XX 8/ SC 1 could have a CL of two though, right?


crimsondeath ---
Actually, even that wouldn't work because you need level 3 spells to become a Sublime Chord.


archerpwr ---
prec. apprentice (wizard) + improved sigil krau?


crimsondeath ---
That would work.


aDMg ---
Druid spells can now be treated as Arcane.
P.30 of Dragons of Eberron, has a dragon religion called Child of Eberron.
It adds Druid spells to the arcane list, for the dragon.
For everybody else:
Locate said dragon ; Charm said dragon ; You start making a scroll ; The dragon supplies the spell.
Then stick it through JulesCARV's loop.

What makes it ... s ... l ... o ... w ... ,
is which-ever dragon only knows a Sorcerer's # of spells,
so the total known Druid=arcane spells,
will be limited one dragon, to one other dragon, to the next dragon, etc.

Magic of Eberron has the feat Psychic Rush.
For 1 action point, it reduces the cost of a power by d6 powerpoints.
Combined with Psiotheurgist, and a very specific build,
that reduces the cost of all up to 8th level powers to 1 pp.

Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle open up any power up to 7th level
to non-psi for just 1 pp; so that's about the same ball park.

Metapower and Midnight Augmentation combined with Psychic Rush (above)
would reduce augmentation costs to 1pp for any augment up to (8+PowerLevel of PP)pp total cost.
The CPsi powerstone nerf could be two-wayed. First to make a cheap powerstone.
Then use it, via the 3 feats above for augmenting, to make a new powerstone, with the cheapened augmentation.

Lastly, Chameleon Crafting feat in Dragon #349 can make psi powers into an arcane or divine item; and vice versa.
All for the cost of *1.5 exp of normal.
Scrolls of Psi powers can be made, and then Wizards or Archivists can run them through the loop.
That feat is totally borkny.

conclusion:
Psionics is hard to do this way, but all in all, every spell and power can be 1 CL or ML.
Psi-powers can also be augmented by bunches for just 1 more pp.


julesCARV --- {not sure who he quotes}
    No, she doesn't. An Illumian Bard 1 with Improved Sigil Krau knows four cantrips, which her Improved Krau Sigil can Heighten to level 1 spells. You need either another level of Bard, or a level of pretty much any other arcane spellcasting class.
Okay. It's been a while since I've looked at this thread, but I'm confused. Are you saying that the 2nd level spell slot from precocious apprentice doesn't count in terms of meeting prestige class prerequisites? If so, fair enough, but if so, you really need four bard levels, not just two, to be able to use improved sigil (krau) to heighten them to 3rd level spells as need for the sublime chord entry, and nor would a single level of another spellcasting class be sufficient: three wizard levels, for instance, would be necessary.
So where are you getting this "either one more bard level or one level of another arcane class like sorcerer or wizard is needed" stuff? Are you thinking that the sublime chord has a requirement of 2nd level spells, which could be acquired by krau-heightening a 1st level spell or something?


phaedrusXY --- {aDMg quote}
    D
    What makes it ... s ... l ... o ... w ... ,
    is which-ever dragon only knows a Sorcerer's # of spells,
    so the total known Druid=arcane spells,
    will be limited one dragon, to one other dragon, to the next dragon, etc.
Hi Mr. (charmed/dominated/otherwise enslaved) Dragon. Can I use Psychic Reformation on you? 25 XP per spell is not too bad.


PLZ ---
I'm glad you guys managed to prove it. I saw when this came out and I though, 'of course' and never read it [good job though awakened]


**

Now does it fit?
It fits.  Minor edits for format.
So post away, if so inclined.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 05:18:06 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings
Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

    DnD Handbook Writer
    ****
    Posts: 1727
    Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    Respect: +28
        View Profile

Re: [Archive] ... Odd optimization project: minimizing caster levels
« Reply #1: December 19, 2015, 03:56:38 PM »
I remember this thread. The good old days.

Method A) Odd PrC CL setting, mostly fast casters. Queue even more DM hate for these type of PrCs.
Method B) CL Penalties like the mageslayer line.
Method C) Free CL 'reaches' like the artificer crafting "bonus." Also the thrallherd lesser PP abilities is this.

Method A simply needs a homebrew fixing a la dirty handbook tricks.

Method B doesn't get around the minimum CL enforcement which I can't seem to find in the SRD. Its similar to the "a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level" restriction. EDIT: See the rules quote below

Method C still requires an artificer to spend gp as if the CL were higher. For all intents and purposes it is the same as using beads of karma when using a scroll. There's no "rule" that makes the "minimum CL" lower for that level of spell. It's just a fluke of UMD.

The thrallherd bonus is just like earthspell. You could already "reach" for higher powers if you could discount the pp ... assuming your DM agreed with that interprtation of "(you) can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than his manifester level." What's the pp cost? The one on the power description or the "effective" number that you pay? :)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 09:01:54 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
Logged
Have you ever wanted to:
Download every organized, useful 3e character building resource, including spells, feats, web articles, etc.?
Completely & elegantly fix all of 3e with the fewest changes necessary?
See how I make/organize my own build details?
Offline faeryn

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 796
    Dedicated Spellthief: stealing all your spells
    Respect: +9
        View Profile

Re: [Archive] ... Odd optimization project: minimizing caster levels
« Reply #2: January 05, 2016, 05:17:49 PM »
The rules quote as requested

Quote from: SRD

    Caster Level
    A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell.

    You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

    In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level check to overcome your target’s spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).

« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 05:19:26 PM by faeryn »
Logged
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7022
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

Re: [Archive] ... Odd optimization project: minimizing caster levels
« Reply #3: January 05, 2016, 05:50:07 PM »
Scrolls need a Caster Level check if your CL is too low.
Powerstones similarly get an ML check.

Elocator gets Psi Dim Door as an (su) with perhaps just 3 CL.
"Her manifester level for this effect is equal to her elocater level."
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings
Offline faeryn

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 796
    Dedicated Spellthief: stealing all your spells
    Respect: +9
        View Profile

Re: [Archive] ... Odd optimization project: minimizing caster levels
« Reply #4: January 12, 2016, 12:54:48 AM »
I've been looking over the Artificer class abilities and item creation rules... particularly the Scribe Scroll rules since that's what you've presented as the purpose for this... and I'm not seeing anything that would make reducing CL have any baring on the CL requirements for the Artificer... Nor do I see any reason why they even should... he can create scrolls for any spell 2 levels earlier than any caster could even get said spell and he doesn't need to actually know the spell himself, he can litteraly scribe any spell he wishes so long as it's min CL is no more than 2 levels above his Artificer level... as the Artificer class feature even states, Fireball has a min CL of 5 but an Artificer can create a scroll of fireball at 3rd with a CL 3. However that CL3 Weak Fireball scroll has a creation cost equal to a normal CL 5 Fireball scroll.

The rules on scrolls even state the min CL for a scroll is equal to the spell level x2 - 1... Artificer's class feature is an explicit exception to this allowing them to create scrolls of no more than 2 CL lower than normal.


All that said... what point is there even left for reducing CL beyond ways to reduce an opponents CL to cripple them?
Logged

    Print

Pages: [1]   Go Up

19
Other RPGs / D&D Alignment Through The Ages , by Libertad
« on: June 16, 2017, 05:21:47 PM »
EDIT --- sblocks didn't make it from Googlecache over to here.  See further down.

Here's how to end alignment arguments, with the whole darn thing ev'ry edition.
     
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Author Topic: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages  (Read 6532 times)
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Topic Start: December 14, 2012, 03:14:40 PM »
D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages

For a handy piece of reference, I've decided to take the official descriptions of Alignment in the various Editions of Dungeons & Dragons and compile them into one post.  As of now, I cannot find examples from Original D&D.  Tell me what you think!

Also, reprinted text from the Books of Vile Darkness and Exalted Deeds.  Thanks, FlaminCows!

Original D&D, with comments courtesy of Talysman (RPGSite):

(click to show/hide)

Holmes Basic

(click to show/hide)
Plus a graph, four corners and the Neutral centre, with example creatures marked how far from the centre circle they are.

Moldvay/Cook Basic (B/X):

(click to show/hide)

Mentzer Basic (BECMI)

Cut & Paste from Moldvay. Plus an earlier intro for the kids.
(click to show/hide)

1st Edition

(click to show/hide)

2nd Edition

(click to show/hide)

3rd Edition

(click to show/hide)

4th Edition

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 05:38:07 PM by Libertad »
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline sirpercival

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 10639
    you can't escape the miles
    Respect: +126
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #1: December 14, 2012, 03:43:47 PM »
2E, I believe:

Chapter 4:
Alignment
After all other steps toward creating a character have been completed, the player must
choose an alignment for the character. In some cases (especially the paladin), the choice
of alignment may be limited.
The character's alignment is a guide to his basic moral and ethical attitudes toward
others, society, good, evil, and the forces of the universe in general. Use the chosen
alignment as a guide to provide a clearer idea of how the character will handle moral
dilemmas. Always consider alignment as a tool, not a straitjacket that restricts the
character. Although alignment defines general attitudes, it certainly doesn't prevent a
character from changing his beliefs, acting irrationally, or behaving out of character.
Alignment is divided into two sets of attitudes: order and chaos, and good and evil. Bycombining the different variations within the two sets, nine distinct alignments are
created. These nine alignments serve well to define the attitudes of most of the people in
the world.
Law, Neutrality, and Chaos
Attitudes toward order and chaos are divided into three opposing beliefs. Picture these
beliefs as the points of a triangle, all pulling away from each other. The three beliefs are
law, chaos, and neutrality. One of these represents each character's ethos--his
understanding of society and relationships.
Characters who believe in law maintain that order, organization, and society are
important, indeed vital, forces of the universe. The relationships between people and
governments exist naturally. Lawful philosophers maintain that this order is not created
by man but is a natural law of the universe. Although man does not create orderly
structures, it is his obligation to function within them, lest the fabric of everything
crumble. For less philosophical types, lawfulness manifests itself in the belief that laws
should be made and followed, if only to have understandable rules for society. People
should not pursue personal vendettas, for example, but should present their claims to the
proper authorities. Strength comes through unity of action, as can be seen in guilds,
empires, and powerful churches.
Those espousing neutrality tend to take a more balanced view of things. They hold that
for every force in the universe, there is an opposite force somewhere. Where there is
lawfulness, there is also chaos; where there is neutrality, there is also partisanship. The
same is true of good and evil, life and death. What is important is that all these forces
remain in balance with each other. If one factor becomes ascendant over its opposite, the
universe becomes unbalanced. If enough of these polarities go out of balance, the fabric
of reality could pull itself apart. For example, if death became ascendant over life, the
universe would become a barren wasteland.
Philosophers of neutrality not only presuppose the existence of opposites, but they also
theorize that the universe would vanish should one opposite completely destroy the other
(since nothing can exist without its opposite). Fortunately for these philosophers (and all
sentient life), the universe seems to be efficient at regulating itself. Only when a
powerful, unbalancing force appears (which almost never happens) need the defenders of
neutrality become seriously concerned.
The believers in chaos hold that there is no preordained order or careful balance of
forces in the universe. Instead they see the universe as a collection of things and events,
some related to each other and others completely independent. They tend to hold that
individual actions account for the differences in things and that events in one area do not
alter the fabric of the universe halfway across the galaxy. Chaotic philosophers believe in
the power of the individual over his own destiny and are fond of anarchistic nations.
Being more pragmatic, non-philosophers recognize the function of society in protecting
their individual rights. Chaotics can be hard to govern as a group, since they place their
own needs and desires above those of society.
Good, Neutrality, and Evil
Like law and order, the second set of attitudes is also divided into three parts. These partsdescribe, more or less, a character's moral outlook; they are his internal guideposts to
what is right or wrong.
Good characters are just that. They try to be honest, charitable, and forthright. People
are not perfect, however, so few are good all the time. There are always occasional
failings and weaknesses. A good person, however, worries about his errors and normally
tries to correct any damage done.
Remember, however, that goodness has no absolute values. Although many things are
commonly accepted as good (helping those in need, protecting the weak), different
cultures impose their own interpretations on what is good and what is evil.
Those with a neutral moral stance often refrain from passing judgment on anything.
They do not classify people, things, or events as good or evil; what is, is. In some cases,
this is because the creature lacks the capacity to make a moral judgment (animals fall into
this category). Few normal creatures do anything for good or evil reasons. They kill
because they are hungry or threatened. They sleep where they find shelter. They do not
worry about the moral consequences of their actions--their actions are instinctive.
Evil is the antithesis of good and appears in many ways, some overt and others quite
subtle. Only a few people of evil nature actively seek to cause harm or destruction. Most
simply do not recognize that what they do is destructive or disruptive. People and things
that obstruct the evil character's plans are mere hindrances that must be overcome. If
someone is harmed in the process . . . well, that's too bad. Remember that evil, like good,
is interpreted differently in different societies.
Alignment Combinations
Nine different alignments result from combining these two sets. Each alignment varies
from all others, sometimes in broad, obvious ways, and sometimes in subtle ways. Each
alignment is described in the following paragraphs.
Lawful Good: Characters of this alignment believe that an orderly, strong society with
a well-organized government can work to make life better for the majority of the people.
To ensure the quality of life, laws must be created and obeyed. When people respect the
laws and try to help one another, society as a whole prospers. Therefore, lawful good
characters strive for those things that will bring the greatest benefit to the most people
and cause the least harm. An honest and hard-working serf, a kindly and wise king, or a
stern but forthright minister of justice are all examples of lawful good people.
Lawful Neutral: Order and organization are of paramount importance to characters of
this alignment. They believe in a strong, well-ordered government, whether that
government is a tyranny or benevolent democracy. The benefits of organization and
regimentation outweigh any moral questions raised by their actions. An inquisitor
determined to ferret out traitors at any cost or a soldier who never questions his orders are
good examples of lawful neutral behavior.
Lawful Evil: These characters believe in using society and its laws to benefit
themselves. Structure and organization elevate those who deserve to rule as well as
provide a clearly defined hierarchy between master and servant. To this end, lawful evil
characters support laws and societies that protect their own concerns. If someone is hurt
or suffers because of a law that benefits lawful evil characters, too bad. Lawful evil
characters obey laws out of fear of punishment. Because they may be forced to honor an
unfavorable contract or oath they have made, lawful evil characters are usually verycareful about giving their word. Once given, they break their word only if they can find a
way to do it legally, within the laws of the society. An iron-fisted tyrant and a devious,
greedy merchant are examples of lawful evil beings.
Neutral Good: These characters believe that a balance of forces is important, but that
the concerns of law and chaos do not moderate the need for good. Since the universe is
vast and contains many creatures striving for different goals, a determined pursuit of
good will not upset the balance; it may even maintain it. If fostering good means
supporting organized society, then that is what must be done. If good can only come
about through the overthrow of existing social order, so be it. Social structure itself has
no innate value to them. A baron who violates the orders of his king to destroy something
he sees as evil is an example of a neutral good character.
True Neutral: True neutral characters believe in the ultimate balance of forces, and
they refuse to see actions as either good or evil. Since the majority of people in the world
make judgments, true neutral characters are extremely rare. True neutrals do their best to
avoid siding with the forces of either good or evil, law or chaos. It is their duty to see that
all of these forces remain in balanced contention.
True neutral characters sometimes find themselves forced into rather peculiar alliances.
To a great extent, they are compelled to side with the underdog in any given situation,
sometimes even changing sides as the previous loser becomes the winner. A true neutral
druid might join the local barony to put down a tribe of evil gnolls, only to drop out or
switch sides when the gnolls were brought to the brink of destruction. He would seek to
prevent either side from becoming too powerful. Clearly, there are very few true neutral
characters in the world.
Neutral Evil: Neutral evil characters are primarily concerned with themselves and
their own advancement. They have no particular objection to working with others or, for
that matter, going it on their own. Their only interest is in getting ahead. If there is a
quick and easy way to gain a profit, whether it be legal, questionable, or obviously
illegal, they take advantage of it. Although neutral evil characters do not have the everyman-for-himself attitude of chaotic characters, they have no qualms about betraying their
friends and companions for personal gain. They typically base their allegiance on power
and money, which makes them quite receptive to bribes. An unscrupulous mercenary, a
common thief, and a double-crossing informer who betrays people to the authorities to
protect and advance himself are typical examples of neutral evil characters.
Chaotic Good: Chaotic good characters are strong individualists marked by a streak of
kindness and benevolence. They believe in all the virtues of goodness and right, but they
have little use for laws and regulations. They have no use for people who "try to push
folk around and tell them what to do." Their actions are guided by their own moral
compass which, although good, may not always be in perfect agreement with the rest of
society. A brave frontiersman forever moving on as settlers follow in his wake is an
example of a chaotic good character.
Chaotic Neutral: Chaotic neutral characters believe that there is no order to anything,
including their own actions. With this as a guiding principle, they tend to follow whatever
whim strikes them at the moment. Good and evil are irrelevant when making a decision.
Chaotic neutral characters are extremely difficult to deal with. Such characters have been
known to cheerfully and for no apparent purpose gamble away everything they have on
the roll of a single die. They are almost totally unreliable. In fact, the only reliable thingabout them is that they cannot be relied upon! This alignment is perhaps the most
difficult to play. Lunatics and madmen tend toward chaotic neutral behavior.
Chaotic Evil: These characters are the bane of all that is good and organized. Chaotic
evil characters are motivated by the desire for personal gain and pleasure. They see
absolutely nothing wrong with taking whatever they want by whatever means possible.
Laws and governments are the tools of weaklings unable to fend for themselves. The
strong have the right to take what they want, and the weak are there to be exploited.
When chaotic evil characters band together, they are not motivated by a desire to
cooperate, but rather to oppose powerful enemies. Such a group can be held together only
by a strong leader capable of bullying his underlings into obedience. Since leadership is
based on raw power, a leader is likely to be replaced at the first sign of weakness by
anyone who can take his position away from him by any method. Bloodthirsty
buccaneers and monsters of low Intelligence are fine examples of chaotic evil
personalities.
Non-Aligned Creatures
In addition to the alignments above, some things--particularly unintelligent monsters
(killer plants, etc.) and animals--never bother with moral and ethical concerns. For these
creatures, alignment is simply not applicable. A dog, even a well-trained one, is neither
good nor evil, lawful nor chaotic. It is simply a dog. For these creatures, alignment is
always detected as neutral.
Logged
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.
Offline Nanshork

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 9882
    Boo!
    Respect: +50
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #2: December 14, 2012, 03:47:27 PM »
Clean that shit up percival.   :P

I'll double check on that 2E when I get home.  Also, 2E Dark Sun had a pretty good one, I'll dredge that up too.
Logged
Nanshork's "Notes to Self" (Extended Signature Thread)
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #3: December 14, 2012, 04:17:24 PM »
This page supports Percival's claims.
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline Nanshork

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 9882
    Boo!
    Respect: +50
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #4: December 14, 2012, 04:18:33 PM »
Quote from: Libertad on December 14, 2012, 04:17:24 PM

    This page supports Percival's claims.


I didn't doubt him.  I was just saying that I'd check since he said "I believe".  I'm more concerned with the horrible lack of editing he did on his post.   :p
Logged
Nanshork's "Notes to Self" (Extended Signature Thread)
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #5: December 14, 2012, 04:29:54 PM »
Put it into my original post, but edited up.  I think that it reads pretty well.
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7053
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #6: December 15, 2012, 02:37:19 PM »
Niice.
4e was an intentional simplification.

The various Outer Planes from 1e to 3e
get down and dirty with the subtleties.

iirc - one of the non AD&D products had
the Neutral plane Concordant Opposition
closed to everyone and everything.
Sort of a neutral ultra- Xenophobia.
There should be differing varieties of N.
True Believing Neutral is very different
from Don't Give A Darn Neutral.
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #7: December 16, 2012, 08:45:39 PM »
Edition Comparisons: Chaotic Neutral

Let us look at the most controversial alignment, and how it has changed over the years.

Quote

    1st Edition: Above respect for life and good, or disregard for life and
    promotion of evil, the chaotic neutral places randomness and disorder.
    Good and evil are complimentary balance arms. Neither are preferred,
    nor must either prevail, for ultimate chaos would then suffer.

    2nd Edition: Chaotic neutral characters believe that there is no order to anything, including their own actions. With this as a guiding principle, they tend to follow whatever whim strikes them at the moment. Good and evil are irrelevant when making a decision.
    Chaotic neutral characters are extremely difficult to deal with. Such characters have been known to cheerfully and for no apparent purpose gamble away everything they have on the roll of a single die. They are almost totally unreliable.  In fact, the only reliable thing
    about them is that they cannot be relied upon! This alignment is perhaps the most difficult to play.  Lunatics and madmen tend toward chaotic neutral behavior.

    3rd Edition: A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn’t strive to protect others’ freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.


All 3 versions have some problematic behavior, with 2nd Edition being the most so.

1st Edition CN is that of an ideologue to unpredictability.  Interestingly it implies dedication to a larger role within the Multiverse, that of preventing Good and Evil alike from growing too dominant.  The idea of being beyond concern for life (either its promotion or destruction) sounds close to apathy.  Beyond that, we're left with "I value disorder," which doesn't make for interesting, well-developed characters.

2nd Edition CN is definitely my least favorite.  It pretty much leaves room for only two concepts: that of someone who lives for the short-term and follows things without rhyme nor reason, and somebody afflicted with mental illness.  How many problem players used this description as an excuse for disruptive behavior, or to engage in acts which most would describe as Evil?

3rd Edition CN also goes for the "lives by their whims" description, but they also use it to describe characters who generally just resent authority.  The final two sentences were much needed, a direct rebuke to the whole "totally random!" stereotype which the previous Editions supported.

What are your thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 01:21:14 AM by Libertad »
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

    Legendary Member
    ****
    Posts: 1581
    I am Concerned
    Respect: +10
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #8: December 16, 2012, 10:43:46 PM »
My problem with many conceptions of Chaotic Neutral, including the 1st and 2nd ed descriptions above, is that they hit the Chaotic but ignore the Neutral.

To wit, the 3.5 SRD on neutrality on the G/E axis

Quote

    People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships.


The "compunctions against killing the innocent" and "committed to others by personal relationships" aspects tend to get ignored in the classic "CN means I can do whatever I want" character.
Logged
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #9: December 17, 2012, 02:05:53 AM »
Ever get the odd feeling that someone used your post for reference?

Just a guess, guys.
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline Amechra

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 4556
    Thread Necromancy a specialty
    Respect: +97
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #10: December 17, 2012, 02:28:14 AM »
Along with completely missing the point of this thread?

Yep.

Jeese, man, what did you do to grognards.txt? They seem to irrationally hate you for some reason.
Logged
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."
Offline linklord231

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3270
    The dice are trying to kill me
    Respect: +48
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #11: December 17, 2012, 02:47:48 AM »
I think (hope?) the guy who reposted your "Edition Comparisons: CN" was being satirical when he said it was totally verisimilitudinous and that confusion over it is a sign of intellectual immaturity.
Logged
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #12: December 17, 2012, 11:09:12 AM »
Quote from: linklord231 on December 17, 2012, 02:47:48 AM

    I think (hope?) the guy who reposted your "Edition Comparisons: CN" was being satirical when he said it was totally verisimilitudinous and that confusion over it is a sign of intellectual immaturity.


Yes, they were being satirical.  Part of the thread is making fun of gamers who insist that the flaws of pre-4E games weren't really flaws.  In regards to alignment, some of these gamers argue that stupid "Chaotic Neutral" PCs are playing the alignment wrong.

Personally I'd guess that LightWarden read the thread, read how dumb and inconsistent Chaotic Neutral has been over the years, and provides the inconsistent examples to make fun of people who defend the alignment system.  If he did read it, he didn't quote my analysis or thoughts, just the text from the PHBs.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 12:38:30 PM by Libertad »
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #13: December 17, 2012, 12:29:10 PM »
Edition Comparisons: Lawful Good

This alignment is of particular importance for one major reason: Paladins.  Before 4th Edition, they could be of only one alignment.  Playing as a holy warrior definitely has its appeal, despite heavy role-playing restrictions, tough prerequisites, and relative lack of power in 3rd Edition.  I'd make an educated guess that about half of Lawful Good PCs were Paladins.  Over time, the class' values and the alignment's values became interchangeable in the minds of many gamers, even if this was not always the case.

Quote

    1st Edition: While as strict in their prosecution of law and order,
    characters of lawful good alignment follow these precepts to improve the
    common weal. Certain freedoms must, of course, be sacrificed in order to
    bring order; but truth is of highest value, and life and beauty of great
    importance. The benefits of this society are to be brought to all.

    2nd Edition: Characters of this alignment believe that an orderly, strong society with a well-organized government can work to make life better for the majority of the people.  To ensure the quality of life, laws must be created and obeyed. When people respect the laws and try to help one another, society as a whole prospers. Therefore, lawful good characters strive for those things that will bring the greatest benefit to the most people and cause the least harm. An honest and hard-working serf, a kindly and wise king, or a stern but forthright minister of justice are all examples of lawful good people.

    3rd Edition: A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

    Lawful good is the best alignment you can be because it combines honor and compassion.

    4th Edition: An ordered society protects us from evil.

    If you’re lawful good, you respect the authority of personal codes of conduct, laws, and leaders, and you believe that those codes are the best way of achieving your ideals. Just authority promotes the well-being of its subjects and prevents them from harming one another. Lawful good characters believe just as strongly as good ones do in the value of life, and they put even more emphasis on the need for the powerful to protect the weak and lift up the downtrodden. The exemplars of the lawful good alignment are shining champions of what’s right, honorable, and true, risking or even sacrificing their lives to stop the spread of evil in the world.

    When leaders exploit their authority for personal gain, when laws grant privileged status to some citizens and reduce others to slavery or untouchable status, law has given in to evil and just authority becomes tyranny. You are not only capable of challenging such injustice, but morally bound to do so.

    However, you would prefer to work within the system to right such problems rather than resorting to more rebellious and lawless methods.


1st Edition is sort of vague, in that it mentions law and order being used to promote safety and happiness for the majority of people, and that everyone deserves to benefit from things society creates.  It mentions truth as the ultimate good, followed closely by life and beauty.  I find this odd, because there are times when lying might be necessary to prevent violence and panic (and little white lies, like telling a doubting, down-trodden kid that Santa's real).  Life is understandable, although this would not go well with the whole "holy warrior" angle: what about the lives of evil folk?  And beauty is an odd thing to include, as it is mostly an aesthetic standard instead of a moral one.

1E LG is sort of authoritarian, in that it mentions that certain freedoms must be gotten away with, although it doesn't mention what these freedoms are.  Of course, my mind jumps to extreme examples, like guys dumping toxic waste on their own property (which then affects the property of others), although I do not know if the developers had this in mind.

2nd Edition is basically utilitarianism, in that programs and goals which help reduce misery and promote wellness on the largest scales are an ultimate good.  In order to do this, it requires that people be in the same boat to strive for this, and emphasizes a common regard for the rules of the society which strives to do this.  It strives for maximum standards of living balanced by the least amount of harm done.

This raises questions, like if a Lawful Good character will permit short-term harm for long-term prosperity for the majority, or when the line is crossed in regards to "too much harm."  But it provides an interesting and admirable ideal, which in itself can do a lot of good if implemented properly (remember, many of history's greatest heroes had high ideals).  It kind of reminds me of the Nordic Model of Scandinavian social democracy, a system well-known for producing a happy, healthy, and educated populace while still maintaining civil liberties for all.

This explanation is the most well thought out in my opinion.

3rd Edition is brief and not well explained.  It mentions that Lawful Good characters act as a good person is expected to act.  When you've got Neutral Good and Chaotic Good people, this just doesn't hold water; the Archon is just as Good as the Eladrin, who is just as Good as the Guardinal.

We go back to the "truth" thing, which is probably where the "do not lie" part of the Paladin's Code comes from.  Its other descriptors can be logically applied to other alignments: helps those in need (Good in general), speaks out against injustice (Chaotic Good), and hates to see the guilty go unpunished (Lawful Neutral).

We are left with nothing unique at all about this description in comparison to the other alignments, at all.  This is my least favorite description.

4th Edition is interesting, in that it's the most leader-driven of the descriptions.  It puts important emphasis on rulers being wise and just to benefit the group, and that obeying the laws and edicts of such leaders helps promote harmony for all.  It mentions that leaders who abuse their power or declare certain people non-entities must be removed, making it distinct from the "obey rules for the sake of it" Lawful Neutral guy, and the tyrannical "some people deserve to be oppressed" Lawful Evil.  It does leave the question of how Lawful Good views the monstrous races, such as Orcs.  Couldn't one argue that such people are declared non-entities by civilized lands?

What I'm getting from 4E LG is that of a system with a omnipresent government, yet one controlled by checks and balances, with the power spread out so that leaders corrupted by power can be brought in line by the others.

2nd and 4th are the most specific, and lay out their ideologies in more concise terms.  Even if we can't imagine people who are this way all the time, we can get a clear picture of the mind of a person driven by these ideals and how they'd react in moral situations.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 01:25:05 AM by Libertad »
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #14: December 17, 2012, 06:42:53 PM »
Edition Comparisons: True Neutral

Quote

    1st Edition: The "true" neutral looks upon all other alignments as facets
    of the system of things. Thus, each aspect - evil and good, chaos and law
    - of things must be retained in balance to maintain the status quo; for
    things as they are cannot be improved upon except temporarily, and even
    then but superficially. Nature will prevail and keep things as they were
    meant to be, provided the "wheel" surrounding the hub of nature does
    not become unbalanced due to the work of unnatural forces - such as
    human and other intelligent creatures interfering with what is meant to be.

    2nd Edition: True neutral characters believe in the ultimate balance of forces, and they refuse to see actions as either good or evil. Since the majority of people in the world make judgments, true neutral characters are extremely rare. True neutrals do their best to avoid siding with the forces of either good or evil, law or chaos. It is their duty to see that all of these forces remain in balanced contention.  True neutral characters sometimes find themselves forced into rather peculiar alliances.  To a great extent, they are compelled to side with the underdog in any given situation, sometimes even changing sides as the previous loser becomes the winner. A true neutral druid might join the local barony to put down a tribe of evil gnolls, only to drop out or switch sides when the gnolls were brought to the brink of destruction. He would seek to prevent either side from becoming too powerful. Clearly, there are very few true neutral characters in the world.

    3rd Edition: A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn’t feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos. Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character thinks of good as better than evil—after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she’s not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.

    Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.

    Neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you act naturally, without prejudice or compulsion.

    4th Edition: Just let me go about my business.

    If you’re unaligned, you don’t actively seek to harm others or wish them ill. But you also don’t go out of your way to put yourself at risk without some hope for reward. You support law and order when doing so benefits you. You value your own freedom, without worrying too much about protecting the freedom of others.

    A few unaligned people, and most unaligned deities, aren’t undecided about alignment. Rather, they’ve chosen not to choose, either because they see the benefits of both good and evil or because they see themselves as above the concerns of morality. The Raven Queen and her devotees fall into the latter camp, believing that moral choices are irrelevant to their mission since death comes to all creatures regardless of alignment.


1st Edition is some kind of karmic activist.  Far from the stereotypical apathy of Neutrality, True Neutral characters work to ensure that the forces of Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos do not gain an upper hand in the cosmic struggles.  They also have a reverence for "nature," and believe that sapient creatures such as humankind are a threat to this state.  I believe that this is meant as a tie-in to the Druids, who in this Edition could only be True Neutral.

2nd Edition is much like the first, minus the nature reverence.  They take things a step further and refuse to view actions and people in moral terms (good, evil, etc).  They also go beyond working against cosmic forces, and usually side with the underdog in all conflicts to ensure as universal balance of power as possible.  This... does not make for a good alignment to have for the typical adventuring party.

3rd Edition takes a unique turn by splitting the alignment into two definitions.  The first refers to somebody who does not have strong commitments or ideals to any of the four cosmic forces.  The second is that of one who views Law, Chaos, Good, and Evil as dangerous, destructive forces, with Neutrality being the most reasoned and proper moral pathway.

I personally like 3rd Edition, as it is more suitable to adventuring parties, and is flexible as it gives a common alignment to the people who are unswayed by the extremes of Law and Chaos, Good and Evil.

4th Edition (known as Unaligned here) is similar to the former description of 3rd Edition alignment, except that it generally refers to people who wish to attend to their own affairs instead of meddling about.  It also defines people who view themselves as beyond morality.

I disagree with the last part of 4th Edition's definition: people to place themselves beyond morality (in real life and fiction) generally come off as callous, cold individuals who use this mind-set as a rationalization or excuse for selfishness and mean-spirited actions.  Other than that it's a fine description.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 01:25:20 AM by Libertad »
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #15: December 20, 2012, 12:47:03 AM »
Edition Comparisons: Chaotic Evil

Quote

    1st Edition: The major precepts of this alignment are freedom,
    randomness, and woe. Laws and order, kindness, and good deeds are
    disdained. life has no value. By promoting chaos and evil, those of this
    alignment hope to bring themselves to positions of power, glory, and
    prestige in a system ruled by individual caprice and their own whims.

    2nd Edition: These characters are the bane of all that is good and organized. Chaotic evil characters are motivated by the desire for personal gain and pleasure. They see absolutely nothing wrong with taking whatever they want by whatever means possible.
    Laws and governments are the tools of weaklings unable to fend for themselves. The strong have the right to take what they want, and the weak are there to be exploited.  When chaotic evil characters band together, they are not motivated by a desire to
    cooperate, but rather to oppose powerful enemies. Such a group can be held together only by a strong leader capable of bullying his underlings into obedience. Since leadership is based on raw power, a leader is likely to be replaced at the first sign of weakness by
    anyone who can take his position away from him by any method. Bloodthirsty buccaneers and monsters of low Intelligence are fine examples of chaotic evil personalities.

    3rd Edition: A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

    Chaotic evil is sometimes called "demonic" because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil.

    Chaotic evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents the destruction not only of beauty and life but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.

    4th Edition: I don’t care what I have to do to get what I want.

    Chaotic evil characters have a complete disregard for others. Each believes he or she is the only being that matters and kills, steals, and betrays others to gain power. Their word is meaningless and their actions destructive. Their worldviews can be so warped that they destroy anything and anyone that doesn’t directly contribute to their interests.

    By the standards of good and lawful good people, chaotic evil is as abhorrent as evil, perhaps even more so. Chaotic evil monsters such as demons and orcs are at least as much of a threat to civilization and general well-being as evil monsters are. An evil creature and a chaotic evil creature are both opposed to good, but they don’t have much respect for each other either and rarely cooperate toward common goals.


1st Edition is brief in comparison to the others, but it gets the point across well enough.  They care not for others but themselves, and seek to destroy society by eliminating precepts of safety and security so that they can gain power.  One part I find peculiar is the "freedom, randomness, and woe," indicating that there's little rhyme or reason to the actions of a Chaotic Evil individual.  From the description, the unfettered selfishness does have a form of reason (personal power and freedom at the expense of others), albeit one hard to predict by others.  There is talk of dedication to some twisted ideals, in regards to the spread of chaos and evil, indicating that the alignment may be motivated more than just sociopathic selfishness.

2nd Edition is very similar to the above, except with strong themes of Social Darwinism.  A Chaotic Evil individual views the world solely in terms of individual strength and skill.  Relying upon others, be it through government protection or dedication to a superior, to be signs of a worthless individual.  It's slightly different than 1st in that there is a sort of "code" to the alignment as described before.  Low Intelligence monsters are given as good examples of Chaotic Evil behavior, paving the way for the stereotype of it being an "irrational" form of Evil.

3rd Edition portrays the alignment in similar terms to the above, except the wording use makes Chaotic Evil come off as, well, just plain incompetent.  Haphazard plans, poor organization, hot-tempered, unpredictable.  It rules out brilliant forms of "Chaotic Evil," such as Hannibal Lecter, who could remain cool under pressure and enact well thought out schemes, yet still be utterly selfish and uncaring of others.  It's definitely a step backwards in comparison to earlier examples.

4th Edition is pretty much a throwback to 1st Edition, of an individual dedicated to eliminating people and obstacles in the name of personal empowerment.  It also brings up the "avatar of destruction" angle, as a force dedicated primarily to spreading misery and entropy (like the active spreading of chaos and evil).

I really like the 2nd Edition description.  It fits in perfectly with most of the iconic Chaotic Evil villains in D&D, and frames the alignment in terms beyond "mindless destruction" through a doctrine of "survival of the fittest."  It allows for a great variety of characters, from the mastermind serial killer to the insane cultist hoping to achieve ultimate power through communion with Lovecraftian horrors.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 01:26:05 AM by Libertad »
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline FlaminCows

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 600
    Push that button. Doo eeet.
    Respect: +520
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #16: December 20, 2012, 01:01:49 AM »
+1
It might be a good idea to add the alignment descriptions in the Book of Exalted Deeds and the Book of Vile Darkness. They aren't as widely read, but their are still considered an authority and they expand on the definitions of good and evil.
Logged
Offline awaken_D_M_golem

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 7053
    (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    Respect: +68
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #17: December 20, 2012, 07:28:00 PM »
The subtle (or not) differences of the Planes, are probably not
what you're going for with alignments, instead of planes
that have alignments, or the alignment of a specific plane.


2e CN is a dirt cheap but Mean, understanding of Mental Illness.
Of course the game isn't really delving into all that.
Still Pandemonium as the dumping point of almost all the insane  :pout
iirc - Joan Of Arc was a full on hallucinator = LG champion of battle jesse.

hmm ... the 4th level of Pandemonium was closed off bubbles
where ultra dangerous stuff and monsters got dumped.
Logged
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings
Offline Libertad

    Epic Member
    ****
    Posts: 3459
    Walk the Path of Explosions with me!
    Respect: +102
        View Profile
        My Fantasy and Gaming Blog

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #18: December 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM »
Quote from: FlaminCows on December 20, 2012, 01:01:49 AM

    It might be a good idea to add the alignment descriptions in the Book of Exalted Deeds and the Book of Vile Darkness. They aren't as widely read, but their are still considered an authority and they expand on the definitions of good and evil.


Perhaps, but how long are the descriptions?  If I can't easily copy-paste it, I'll hold off until I'm done, as I could do another comparison instead of manually typing a long entry.
Logged
My product and storefront links.

Libertad's List of Links
Offline FlaminCows

    Hero Member
    ***
    Posts: 600
    Push that button. Doo eeet.
    Respect: +520
        View Profile

Re: D&D Alignment Throughout the Ages
« Reply #19: December 21, 2012, 02:47:38 AM »
+1
That's fine. I'll do it for you, here you go.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 05:06:44 PM by FlaminCows »
Logged

    Print

Pages: [1] 2   Go Up

20
D&D 3rd / Carnivore's Workshop
« on: June 16, 2017, 05:04:18 PM »
PART 1

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Author Topic: Carnivores Workshop  (Read 14392 times)
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Carnivores Workshop
« Topic Start: November 10, 2011, 06:24:44 AM »



SRD

Official WoTC FAQ

WoTC SRD

Forgotten Realms info source

Carnivores New Workshop

Carnivores Old Workshop

Carnivores Workshop on WotC

Pathfinder SRD



Quiver of Anariel
Free D&D stuff
Forgotten Realms Map
Workshops
GoH
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1345.0
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=785.0
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1431411
D&D WoTC news Archives
WOTC Archives
Male character Pics
Female Character Pics
WoTC Art
NPC generator
Random Generator for a lot of things
WoTC Update
WotC Anthropomorphic Animals

WoTC Random room generator
WOTC Eratta
WoTC Encounter Calculator
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20010320b
Crystal Keep, Template List

DNDtools

Myth-Weavers BB Code List
BB code Help


Myth-Weavers Dice Roller


Star Wars Pics
Star Wars FAQ


d&d bk dnld pg
Rifts resource

 :D
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 03:55:34 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #1: November 10, 2011, 06:25:12 AM »
WoTC Art and Maps


Pics

(click to show/hide)



(click to show/hide)



(click to show/hide)

http://www.rdinn.com/comic.php?comicid=50

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChainmailBikini


 :D
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 02:56:29 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #2: November 10, 2011, 06:25:33 AM »
Build Mechanics

Character Skill Max Skill Max Ability Score
Level XP Ranks Ranks Feats Increases
1st 0 4 2 1st —
2nd 1,000 5 2-1/2 — —
3rd 3,000 6 3 2nd —
4th 6,000 7 3-1/2 — 1st
5th 10,000 8 4 — —
6th 15,000 9 4-1/2 3rd —
7th 21,000 10 5 — —
8th 28,000 11 5-1/2 — 2nd
9th 36,000 12 6 4th —
10th 45,000 13 6-1/2 — —
11th 55,000 14 7 — —
12th 66,000 15 7-1/2 5th 3rd
13th 78,000 16 8 — —
14th 91,000 17 8-1/2 — —
15th 105,000 18 9 6th —
16th 120,000 19 9-1/2 — 4th
17th 136,000 20 10 — —
18th 153,000 21 10-1/2 7th —
19th 171,000 22 11 — —
20th 190,000 23 11-1/2 — 5th


Table 6–9: Wealth by Level

Character / NPC

1st see PH 111/ 900 gp
2nd 900 gp/ 2,000 gp
3rd 2,700 gp/ 2,500 gp
4th 5,400 gp/ 3,300 gp
5th 9,000 gp/ 4,300 gp
6th 13,000 gp/ 5,600 gp
7th 19,000 gp/ 7,200 gp
8th 27,000 gp/ 9,400 gp
9th 36,000 gp/ 12,000 gp
10th 49,000 gp/ 16,000 gp
11th 66,000 gp/ 21,000 gp
12th 88,000 gp/ 27,000 gp
13th 110,000 gp/ 35,000 gp
14th 150,000 gp/ 45,000 gp
15th 200,000 gp/ 59,000 gp
16th 260,000 gp/ 77,000 gp
17th 340,000 gp/ 100,000 gp
18th 440,000 gp/ 130,000 gp
19th 580,000 gp/ 170,000 gp
20th 760,000 gp/ 220,000 gp
21st 975,000 gp/ 240,000 gp
22nd 1,200,000 gp/ 265,000 gp
23rd 1,500,000 gp/ 290,000 gp
24th 1,800,000 gp/ 320,000 gp
25th 2,100,000 gp/ 350,000 gp
26th 2,500,000 gp/ 390,000 gp
27th 2,900,000 gp/ 430,000 gp
28th 3,300,000 gp/ 470,000 gp
29th 3,800,000 gp/ 520,000 gp
30th 4,300,000 gp/ 570,000 gp



Encounter Calculator
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/tools

(click to show/hide)

 :D
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 02:02:32 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #3: November 10, 2011, 06:25:58 AM »
EMPTY HAND MASTERY
You have mastered the martial arts style of “Empty Hand”—a hard form emphasizing strikes with the hand.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Fists of Iron, Sunder, Eagle Claw Attack, Ki Shout, 4 or more ranks in Bluff.
Benefit: Your unarmed damage increases by one die type, as
if you were one size category larger than you are.
Old Damage (each) New Damage
1d2 1d3
1d3 1d4
1d4 1d6
1d6 1d8
1d8 or 1d10 2d6
1d12 2d8
1d20 4d6

MIGHTY WORKS MASTERY I
You have mastered the initial secrets of the “Mighty Works” martial arts style—a hard/soft form emphasizing locks and hand strikes.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist (or monk’s stunning attack), Choke Hold, Fists of Iron, Deflect Arrows.
Benefit: When you make an attack or full attack action using an unarmed strike, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to your AC for that round.


MIGHTY WORKS MASTERY II
You have mastered the deeper secrets of the “Mighty Works” martial arts style.
Prerequisites: Mighty Works Mastery I, Improved Trip, Earth’s Embrace, Ki Shout, Iron Will.
Benefit: When you make a stunning attack, you may choose to inflict 1d4 points of temporary Strength damage instead of stunning your target.


FOOT AND FIST MASTERY
You have mastered the martial arts style of “Foot and Fist”— a hard form emphasizing strikes with the hands and feet.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Roundabout Kick, Flying Kick, Fists of Iron, Deflect Arrows, 5 or more ranks in Jump and Tumble.
Benefit: You gain a +10 competence bonus on Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks.


THE GENTLE WAY MASTERY
You have mastered the martial arts style of “The Gentle Way”— a soft form emphasizing throws and movement.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Improved Trip, Defensive Throw, Combat Reflexes, Great Throw, 6 or more ranks in Tumble
Benefits: Once per day, you can make yourself unmovable. You automatically win an opposed Strength check when an opponent attempts to bull rush you. A creature with the improved grab ability must move into your space to grapple you, since it cannot pull you into its space. No spell or other effect can force you to move. If you become frightened or panicked, you suffer the full effect of the fear but do not run away. You cannot move, even to make a 5-foot step, while this ability is in effect. This ability lasts for 1 round per level, but you can end it at any time.

MEDITATION OF WAR MASTERY
You have mastered the martial arts style of “Meditation of War”—a hard/soft form emphasizing weapon use and strikes to pressure points.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (or monk’s stunning attack ability), Fists of Iron, Freezing the Lifeblood, Falling Star Strike, 6 or more ranks in Jump and Tumble
Benefits: The saving throw DC of your stunning attack and other pressure-point attacks is increased by 2. You also gain Weapon Focus as a bonus feat; you must already have proficiency with the weapon and you must select one of the following weapons for the feat to apply to: bastard sword, dagger, shortsword, spear, quarterstaff, or heavy mace.

WORD GIVEN FORM
You have mastered the martial arts style of "Word Given Form"
Prerequisite: Truespeak 12 ranks, Tumble 12 ranks, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Spring Attack.
Benefit: When using the Dodge feat against an opponent in addition to the +1 dodge bonus to AC, you also gain total concealment (50% miss chance) from that opponent as your form blurs and shifts.

Class/PrC fast Info
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

 :D
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 08:41:37 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #4: November 10, 2011, 06:26:24 AM »
Builds

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
:D
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 10:44:02 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #5: November 10, 2011, 06:26:50 AM »
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)





 :D
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 10:44:51 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #6: November 10, 2011, 06:27:11 AM »
(click to show/hide)



Iron Siege Entry
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 10:16:34 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #7: November 10, 2011, 06:27:34 AM »
Test Builds

Fighter 4/ Ardent 4/ Psychic Weapon Master 10/ Exotic Weapon Master 2


Psychic Weapon master found here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d



(click to show/hide)

 :D
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 04:49:04 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #8: November 10, 2011, 06:27:58 AM »
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
:D
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 08:45:42 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #9: November 10, 2011, 06:28:21 AM »
(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 09:00:04 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #10: November 10, 2011, 06:28:42 AM »
Pixie Warblade 2

Attributes: 32pt buy

10 Str(14-4)
22 Dex(14+8)
13 Con(14)
20 Int(14+6)
18 Wis(14+4)
16 Cha(10+6)

Flaws:
Vulnerable
Slow

Feats:
Weapon Finnesse(Pixie Bonus)
Dodge(Pixie Bonus)
Martial Study(Shadow Blade technique)(Flaw Bonus)
Martial Stance(Assassins Stance: Shadow Hand)(Flaw Bonus)
1st Lvl: Shadow Blade

uses Short Swords as primary Weapons

Combat Abilities:
Greater Invisibility
DR 10/Cold Iron
SR 17
Flight 60'(Good)
SLA
Martial Manuvers


Theory build
(click to show/hide)



(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)

 :D
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 10:29:52 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline Tshern

    The Clown Prince of Crime
    DnD Handbook Writer
    ****
    Posts: 1236
    Respect: +3
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #11: November 10, 2011, 08:30:43 AM »
A certain way of knowing carnivore has arrived, the forum all of a sudden seems packed with pictures of pixies. Good to see that this work gets transported, it had some real precious builds.
Logged
Pian unohtuu aika ja tila
Ja nahkapeitto ja syyllisyys
Ja rauenneilla kasvoilla
Viipyy muiston pysyvyys
The Iron Siege: Now under new management
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #12: November 10, 2011, 05:06:08 PM »
actually I plan to clean it up and make it a little more orderly

this way the Builds and Pics are easier to find


Decisive Strike ACF(PHBII)
"Replaces Flurry of Blows"
"As a Full-Round Action, make one attack with an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon, using your highest base attack bonus but taking a -2 on this attack roll. If the attack hits, it deals double damage(as does any other attack you make before the start of your next turn). If you use this strike to deliver a stunning attack, increase the save DC to resist the stun by 2. This is an Extraordinary ability.

At 5th level, the penalty on the attack roll lessens to -1, and ath 9th lvl disappears.

At 11th level, you can make two attacks when using this class feature, though no more than one attack can target a single creature. Both attacks use your highest base attack bonus."

Acheron Flurry
 
Type: General
Source: Planar Handbook

You master the secret technique developed by Acheron-native special forces of limiting a foe's options in hand-to-hand combat.
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Wis 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Knowledge (the planes) 4 ranks.
Benefit: During your turn, designate an opponent within reach to whom you have dealt damage during this encounter using an unarmed strike.
You can spend a standard action to confound and distract your chosen foe with a constant flood of distracting mock attacks. While doing this leaves you open to attacks (applying a -2 penalty to your Armor Class), your foe may take only a single standard action or move action on his next turn.
If you move away (or are otherwise no longer conscious and adjacent to your foe) before your chosen foe's next turn, he may act normally.


Hammer Fist
 
Type: General
Sources: Races of Faerûn
Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1

You are trained in an unarmed fighting style that emphasizes two-handed strike.
Prerequisite: Str 13, Improved Unarmed Strike
Benefit: You may make a single unarmed attack with both hands to add 1-1/2 your Strength bonus on the damage roll. This extra damage does not appy if you make a flurry of blows attack or you are holding anything in either hand.



(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)



 :D
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 08:31:58 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline Nameless Void

    Member
    **
    Posts: 77
    Yes. Nameless.
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #13: November 10, 2011, 05:38:44 PM »
carnivore and pixies? Surely not. I'm totally convinced carnivore has no idea what a pixie is..

Oh.
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #14: November 10, 2011, 06:24:30 PM »
how about this:



 :D
Logged
Offline Mooncrow

    DnD Handbook Writer
    ***
    Posts: 983
    The man who will be Pirate King
    Respect: +11
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #15: November 10, 2011, 06:33:10 PM »
(click to show/hide)

^^
Logged
My Archivist Handbook
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #16: November 10, 2011, 06:59:43 PM »
Serpent Strike
 
Type: General
Source: Eberron Campaign Setting

Through monastic weapon training, you have mastered a fighting style that makes use of an unusual monk weapon: the longspear.
Prerequisite: Simple Weapon Proficiency (longspear), Weapon Focus (longspear), flurry of blows class feature.
Benefit: You can treat a longspear as a special monk weapon, allowing you to perform a flurry of blows with it.



(click to show/hide)




(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
very nice .... I used to have a similar Pic in the Pixie Handbook

:D
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 08:26:56 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #17: December 07, 2011, 08:16:48 PM »
need more workshop space

 :D
Ardent PP/powers known

2/2
6/3
11/4
17/5
25/6
35/7
46/8
58/9
72/10
88/11
106/12
126/13
147/14
170/15
195/16
221/17
250/18
280/19
311/20
343/21



test build:

Human
Ardent 4/ Fighter 2

Ardent 1
Fighter 1
Fighter 2
Ardent 2
Ardent 3
Ardent 4



Conflict Mantle
Granted Powers: You are more in tune with martial concepts and gain the Weapon Focus feat as a bonus feat with a weapon of your choice.

1 - Metaphysical Weapon
1 - Prescience, Offensive
2 - Psionic Lion's Charge
3 - Dimension Slide
4 - Immovability
5 - Psychic Crush
5 - Graft Weapon
8 - Spirit of War



Freedom Mantle
Granted ability: +10' Speed while Psionicly Focused. Expend focus to gain bonus to Resist or Escape Grapple = ML
1st lvl: Dimension Hop
2nd lvl: Hustle
4th lvl: Psionic Fly
5th lvl: Freedom of Movement,psionic
5th lvl: Teleport,psionic
6th lvl: Evade Burst
8th lvl: Greater Teleport, Psionic


Natural World Mantle
Granted Powers: You gain the wild empathy class feature, except the result is determined by 1d20 + manifester level + your Cha modifier.

1 - Chameleon
1 - Metaphysical Claw
1 - Stone Mind
2 - Animal Affinity
2 - Psionic Scent
4 - Metamorphosis
5 - Oak Body
7 - Animate Plants, Psionic
9 - Earthquake, Psionic

Time Mantle
Granted Powers: You gain a +2 bonus on initiative checks. In addition, once per day, you can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to delay the onset of one damaging attack or effect. Instead of taking the damage immediately, as normal, you take it 1 round later. If, in the intervening turn, you gain some immunity that would have protected you from the damage, it does not protect you from the delayed damage. You are subject to the damage as if you had taken it when the blow or effect was struck.

1 - Deceleration
2 - Sustenance
3 - Time Hop
5 - Anticipatory Strike
6 - Temporal Acceleration
8 - Time Hop, Mass
9 - Time Regression

Pain and Suffering Mantle
Granted Powers: As an immediate action, you can expend your psionic focus to share the pain of the next melee attack that deals damage to you. The attacker takes damage equal to half the damage it deals you.

1 - Disable
2 - Inflict Pain
2 - Recall Agony
3 - Empathic Transfer, Hostile
3 - Share Pain, Forced
4 - Empathic Feedback
5 - Psychotic Break
6 - Fuse Flesh
9 - Affinity Field, Pain


Guardian Mantle
Granted Powers: You can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to take the damage dealt to an adjacent ally by a single melee attack. You must declare the use of this ability after you know the result of the attack roll against your ally, but before damage is rolled.

1 - Deaden Blow
1 - Thicken Skin
2 - Damp Power
3 - Dispel Psionics
4 - Wall of Ectoplasm
5 - Protection From Psionics
6 - Mind Over Energy
8 - Iron Body, Psionic


Physical Power Mantle
Granted Powers: As a free action, you can expend your psionic focus to gain a +2 bonus to Str, Dex, or Con for 1 round.

1 - Adrenaline Boost
1 - Vigor
2 - Animal Affinity
3 - Graft Weapon
5 - Psychofeedback
7 - Oak Body
8 - True Metabolism

Knowledge Mantle
Granted Powers: While psionically focused, you can make Knowledge checks as if trained. You can expend your psionic focus to gain a +5 bonus on one Knowledge check.

1 - Call to Mind
1 - Detect Psionics
1 - Detect Teleportation
1 - Know Direction and Location
2 - Detect Hostile Intent
2 - Identify, Psionic
2 - Object Reading
3 - Touchsight
4 - Detect Remote Viewing
4 - Trace Teleport
6 - Psychometry


Elements Mantle
Granted Powers: When you become psionically focused, choose one of the four primary elements with which to align yourself (air, earth, fire, or water). As long as you remain focused, you gain an associated benefit, as given below.

Air: You treat any fall as if the distance were 20 feet less.
Earth: You gain a +4 bonus on Balance checks and checks to resist bull rush attempts.
Fire: Your melee attacks deal an extra 1 point of fire damage.
Water: You gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed.


1 - Control Flames
1 - Elemental Steward
2 - Control Air
2 - Earth Walk
3 - Breathless
5 - Adapt Body
6 - Blackstone Hammer
9 - Tornado Blast











« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 08:18:51 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #18: December 07, 2011, 08:17:09 PM »
need more workshop space 1

 :D

Monk(Weapon Adept)9

Feats:


Tripping Staff (Combat)
You can make a trip attack with your quarterstaff.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff ), base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You treat quarterstaves as if they had the trip special feature.
Special: If you are a magus with the staff magus archetype, you can use spellstrike on any trip combat maneuver you make with the staff.
 

Second Chance (Combat)
Quick reflexes turn missed strikes into second chances.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When making a full attack, if you miss on your first attack, you can forgo making any other attacks for the rest of your turn to reroll that attack at your highest base attack bonus.
 
Quarterstaff Master (Combat)
You can wield a quarterstaff as either a two-handed or one-handed weapon.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (quarterstaff ), base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: By employing a number of different stances and techniques, you can wield a quarterstaff as a one-handed weapon. At the start of your turn, you decide whether or not you are going to wield the quarterstaff as a one-handed or two-handed weapon. When you wield it as a one-handed weapon, your other hand is free, and you cannot use the staff as a double weapon. You can take the feat Weapon Specialization in the quarterstaff even if you have no levels in fighter.

Monkey Style (Combat, Style)
Your unarmed fighting style is nimble and unpredictable, full of ground rolls and short leaps.
Prerequisite: Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 5 ranks, Climb 5 ranks.
Benefit: You add your Wisdom bonus on Acrobatics checks. While using this style, you take no penalty on melee attack rolls or to AC while prone. Further, you can crawl and stand up from lying prone without provoking attacks of opportunity, and you can stand up as a swift action if you succeed at a DC 20 Acrobatics check.
Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and AC against melee attacks while prone. Standing up is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
 
Panther Style (Combat, Style)
You can strike back at enemies who attack you when you move.
Prerequisite: Wis 13, Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: While using this style, when an opponent makes an attack of opportunity against you for moving through a threatened square, you can spend a swift action to make a retaliatory unarmed strike attack against that opponent. Your attack is resolved after the triggering attack of opportunity.
 

Boar Style (Combat, Style)
Your sharp teeth and nails rip your foes open.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Intimidate 3 ranks.
Benefit: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack.


Boar Ferocity (Combat)
Your flesh-ripping unarmed strikes terrify your victims.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Boar Style, Intimidate 6 ranks.
Benefit: You add piercing damage to the damage types you can deal with your unarmed strikes. Further, you gain a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks to demoralize opponents. While using Boar Style, whenever you tear an opponent’s flesh, you can spend a free action to make an Intimidate check to demoralize that opponent.


Boar Shred (Combat)
The wounds you inflict with your unarmed strikes bleed, giving you renewed vigor.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Boar Ferocity, Boar Style, Intimidate 9 ranks.
Benefit: You can make an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent as a move action. While using Boar Style, whenever you tear an opponent’s flesh, once per round at the start of that opponent’s turn he takes 1d6 bleed damage. The bleed damage dealt while using Boar Style persist even if you later switch to a different style.
 
Disorienting Maneuver
Your erratic movements disorient your opponent.
Prerequisites: Dodge, Acrobatics 5 ranks.
Benefit: If you successfully use Acrobatics to tumble through an opponent’s space, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on attack rolls against that opponent until the start of your next turn. If you choose to make a trip attempt against that opponent, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on your combat maneuver check. This bonus on trip also lasts until the start of your next turn.
 
Spider Step
Your physical mastery grants you an impossible stride.
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 6 ranks, Climb 6 ranks, monk level 6th.
Benefit: As a move action, you can move up to half your slow fall distance (maximum 50 feet) across a wall or ceiling or across ropes, branches, or even water or other surfaces that cannot support your weight. You must reach a solid, level surface by the end of your turn or you will fall.
 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 08:12:56 PM by carnivore »
Logged
Offline carnivore

    DnD Handbook Writer
    **
    Posts: 163
    I'm new! sort of
    Respect: 0
        View Profile

Re: Carnivores Workshop
« Reply #19: December 07, 2011, 08:17:31 PM »
need more workshop space 2

 :D

Elf
Fav Class Ability
(click to show/hide)
Alternative Racial Traits
(click to show/hide)


Zen Archer Monk 9

1st
unarmed strike
Point Blank Shot,
Perfect Strike
Deadly Aim

2nd
Precise Shot,
Weapon Focus

3rd
Zen Archery
Point Blank Master
Rapid Shot

6th
Improved Precise Shot,
Weapon Specialization
Combat Reflexes

9th
Reflexive Shot
Clustered Shots


flurry of blows,
Fast movement,
Ki pool (magic),
High jump,
Ki Arrows
Wholeness of body
Slow fall 40 ft.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 09:29:36 PM by carnivore »
Logged

    Print

Pages: [1] 2   Go Up

Pages: [1] 2