Author Topic: Spell Glyph trick  (Read 699 times)

awaken_D_M_golem

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Spell Glyph trick
« on: June 24, 2017, 03:20:41 PM »
last page of Fun Finds had 2 doozies.
The sleepless mystic power, and the Spell Glyph trick.


     

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Author Topic: Fun Finds 2017  (Read 1702 times)
Offline 8wGremlin

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Fun Finds 2017
« Topic Start: March 13, 2017, 10:00:40 PM »
not see a Fun Finds thread for a while, so I thought I'd make this one:

the Mystic is out (version 3) and one of the powers is

Quote from: Adaptive Body

    Immortal Discipline
    You can alter your body to match your surroundings, allowing you to withstand punishing environments. With greater psi energy, you can extend this protection to others.
    Psychic Focus. While focused on this discipline, you don’t need to eat, breathe, or sleep. To gain the benefits of a long rest, you can spend 8 hours engaged in light activity, rather than sleeping during any of it.


could be useful for the sleepless coffee sorlock?

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Offline 8wGremlin

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #1: March 13, 2017, 10:37:47 PM »
also - Order of the Wu Jen - Arcane Dabbler - As a bonus action, you can spend psi points to create spell slots that you can use to cast these spells, as well as other spells you are capable of casting.

does this get round the magic initiate?
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #2: March 15, 2017, 01:10:53 AM »
Seems to.

Depending on your reading of "capable of casting", it might also give you full access to any spell you could normally prepare as a Cleric or Druid, because you know them all by default as those classes.

I mean, I'm capable of casting them, no real study needed, I just didn't prepare that spell today. So I Wu Jenned that problem away.

Or is it a Wizard thing? You don't know the spell if you lose your book, and you don't know a spell until your god tells you about it each morning (they know them, not you).

It probably means "capable of casting right now, assuming I've got the slots for it", which means you'd need to have it prepared. Fortunately druid and cleric is a pretty weak spell list overall anyway, so either way is probably fine.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 01:19:10 AM by sambojin »
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Offline bruceleeroy

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #3: April 15, 2017, 09:38:39 PM »
I dunno if this is an old hat find, but I stumbled across it today while reading giantitp's boards.

Quote

    Spell Glyph: You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. The spell must target a single creature or an area. The spell being stored has no immediate effect when cast in this way. When the glyph is triggered, the stored spell is cast. If the spell has a target, it Targets the creature that triggered the glyph. If the spell affects an area, the area is centered on that creature. If the spell summons hostile creatures or creates harmful Objects or traps, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and Attack it. If the spell requires Concentration, it lasts until the end of its full Duration.



Casting Glyph of Warding with a buff spell means you don't need to concentrate on the spell. You can also upcast it at higher levels, with the level you cast it at being the max level of spell you can store in it. It's supposed to be of limited use because you can't move the glyph more than 10 feet from where it was cast without the glyph disappearing.

Quote

    If you choose an object, that object must remain in its place, if the object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken and the spell ends without being triggered.


So: Bag of holding or portable hole. Obviously the portable hole is preferred, but a bag of holding would work for small sized casters. Cast the Glyphs on some pages of a book, whatever spells you like: Haste, Stoneskin, whatever.  When you have an encounter, either reach into your bag of holding or step into your portable hole, speak the triggering word, and you have multiple concentration free buffs, cast in one round.

Anyone see any holes flaws in this?

Edit: With the portable hole, you could have the whole party step in, each speak their own trigger word, and go Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers on some asses.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 09:43:40 PM by bruceleeroy »
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Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #4: April 15, 2017, 11:32:56 PM »
In the d20srd, it specifies that it must be a harmful spell. I also don't see the part about it maintaining concentration for you.
Quote

    Spell Glyph
    You can store any harmful spell of 3rd level or lower that you know. All level-dependent features of the spell are based on your caster level at the time of casting the glyph. If the spell has a target, it targets the intruder. If the spell has an area or an amorphous effect the area or effect is centered on the intruder. If the spell summons creatures, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and attack. Saving throws and spell resistance operate as normal, except that the DC is based on the level of the spell stored in the glyph.

I believe the magic item that works similarly (and is reusable) might work with non-harmful spells, however. Is that what you meant?
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Offline Chemus

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #5: April 15, 2017, 11:46:53 PM »
This is the 5th ed. FunFinds, pxy ;)
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #6: April 15, 2017, 11:52:35 PM »
@bruceleeroy

I can find a technical flaw with the bag of holding version of the trick.  The 5e description of the item just says its interior is larger than its exterior.  It's only implicitly a portal to another plane based on its interaction with items that are explicitly extradimensional spaces, and it is referred to such in the description of other items.  Without being explicitly declared as an extradimensional space, the contents of the bag still move when the bag does.

The portable hole is explicitly a hole to an extradimensional space that would not move just because the opening moves.  Heward's handy haversack is also explicitly an extradimensional space.

Just lay down the glyph initially inside the hole so it can't ever be considered more than 10 feet from where it was laid down.

@phaedrusxy

That's a discrepancy between the physical book and the SRD then.  The physical book doesn't say the spell must be harmful, and there's no errata I can find saying as such either.  Here's the link you want.  Also, there's this tweet from Jeremy Crawford that says Fly is legal for Glyph of Warding.

It's still useful for Hex or Hunter's Mark if you rule the spell must be harmful.  The last line of the Spell Glyph option says the spell lasts for its full duration if it normally takes concentration.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 11:55:26 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #7: April 16, 2017, 12:29:49 AM »
Quote from: Chemus on April 15, 2017, 11:46:53 PM

    This is the 5th ed. FunFinds, pxy ;)

:lol
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Offline bruceleeroy

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #8: April 16, 2017, 12:53:45 AM »
Interesting catch on the bag of holding.

Phaedrus: get with the times, grognard!  :D

So, is this so busted that it go straight to T.O. status? Because it seems like, in the space of one action, you have every buff in the game running on yourself, so long as you had time and resources to prepare it.
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Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #9: April 16, 2017, 03:05:08 AM »
You'd be pretty ridiculous for about a minute or so if you went the buff route.  It would be more TO if you applied the idea to summoning spells instead.
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Offline bruceleeroy

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #10: April 16, 2017, 04:55:09 AM »
I suppose, even if you have enough buffs to auto-hit and auto-kill, you're still limited by the action economy. Unlimited summons, on the other hands....



Yea, I know there are more powerful options, but any problem can be solved with a sufficient number of apes.
 
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Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #11: April 16, 2017, 09:47:43 AM »
Quote from: bruceleeroy on April 16, 2017, 04:55:09 AM

    I suppose, even if you have enough buffs to auto-hit and auto-kill


I'm not sure there are enough buffs in 5e for that yet, and the duration is short on the majority of them.  If/when we get more spells that buff, the tactic would get more useful.  The existing buffs are too spread out amongst the casters and Glyph of Warding doesn't allow someone else to provide the spell.  You're also constrained by only picking buffs that affect a single target, and I'm not certain range: self spells are legal.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #12: April 17, 2017, 05:12:59 PM »
A little previous edition Bag'gage of Holding? (wink)


Might quibble it's 5' of movement to put it in the bag, and 5' more to pull it out.  Might.

I read reliable triggers so long as the Glyph isn't put into the bag, but I don't think any work with it in the bag. Not sure at least.


This is asking for Warlock's 2 3rd level slots on each down time short rest.
Can raise the spell level to 4 for 4s, 5 for 5s.  Diminishing returns after that.
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Offline bruceleeroy

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #13: April 17, 2017, 11:40:04 PM »
The idea would be to hop inside the bag of holding and cast it in there. That way the glyph doesnt ever move until you need it.
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Quote from: ariasderros on March 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM

    Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.


Offline Wilb

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #14: April 18, 2017, 06:14:33 AM »
Quote from: bruceleeroy on April 17, 2017, 11:40:04 PM

    The idea would be to hop inside the bag of holding and cast it in there. That way the glyph doesnt ever move until you need it.


Loved it, I'm stealing your idea.


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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #15: April 18, 2017, 09:57:06 AM »
Your meme needs to say portable hole for the technicality I pointed out earlier in the thread.  :P
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Offline Wilb

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #16: April 18, 2017, 01:05:20 PM »
Quote from: TenaciousJ on April 18, 2017, 09:57:06 AM

    Your meme needs to say portable hole for the technicality I pointed out earlier in the thread.  :P


Lemme try again

« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 01:13:49 PM by Wilb »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #17: April 22, 2017, 03:12:08 PM »
(on going edits)

Wizard 20 can make :
9 glyph slot = 8 spell
7 glyph slot = 7 spell
6 glyph slot = 6 spell
5 glyph slot = 5 spell
5 glyph slot = 4 spell
4 glyph slot = 4 spell
3 glyph slot = 2 spell
3 glyph slot = 2 spell
3 glyph slot = 2 spell
Wiz 20 "slot" = 3 spell (1 or 2)
short rest
5 glyph slot = 5 spell (recovery)
Wiz 20 "slot" = 3 spell (1 or 2)

... so that's 14 per day with 1 short rest.
At level 18 you could use all of the Glyph slots, on the spammed 1 and/or 2
but that's kinda "iffy" tactics and you'd run out of daylight to do all of it anyway.


Variants :
Could use the Glyph 8 slot , to cast Wish , which makes up to an 8 , and it's that 8 that goes into the Glyph.
Cleric 20 misses out on a 5(+), but has a DMother-may-I chance at an extra 9 slot, to make a 9 Glyph.
Making all the Glyphs out of Rituals, ~doubles the # of glyphs, but is Obviously
"iffy" tactics, and is competing with going the Wiz 18 spam for each glyph slot.
Cleric Arcana 20, could check dmother-may-i first, then do the 8-wish-8 trick (if dm).

edit --- added Wiz 20 into the mix recounted, changed stupid to "iffy", Cleric Arcana.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 01:37:14 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline altpersona

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #18: May 12, 2017, 10:00:03 AM »
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HylrvQGx-
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Offline Wilb

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Re: Fun Finds 2017
« Reply #19: May 13, 2017, 07:32:07 AM »
Quote from: altpersona on May 12, 2017, 10:00:03 AM

    http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HylrvQGx-

It seems to be a very nice list of options, but the Magic Planeshift options are almost hidden in the formatting of the last page.
quick fix.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 07:39:13 AM by Wilb »
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Links referenced
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HylrvQGx-
http://5e.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/829104094589616128

Wilb

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Re: Spell Glyph trick
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 09:13:46 AM »
Its funny but sad that Artificers, who would profit from such a thing need to wait until most campaigns are ending (13th level) to be able to get Glyph of Warding. I mean, an Artificer with a Leomund's Secret Chest full of little bags containing spell glyphs is so flavorful. The Artificers should get at least 6th level spells, even if just as a capstone, to get higher spell levels faster. And Rangers & Paladins getting more casting than a magical gadgeteer is stupid.
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