[Archive] Libertad's Review of The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats

[CritMagnon]

This is going to be more of an attempt at a sloppy preservation of a thread than a proper handbook or anything similar. It's going to mostly be a sloppy content dump, although I will try to make it as presentable as possible. If Libertad or any of the moderators would like this thread removed, just send me a PM. Although this appears to be a fairly random thread to archive as opposed to one of the handbooks or some of the homebrew content out there, I figured I would give it a shot since I was actually using this guide as a reference for an extremely high-power campaign when the boards went offline.

Update: All of the pages have been pasted, so the content is there, even if it's messy. I've formatted the first page as well. I'm debating whether or not to keep the Actor's section in this post - it seems superfluous but maybe someone will find some humor in it. Another thought is that adding smaller avatar images to the individual images would increase legibility, but I doubt it's worth the time.

Update: Second page formatted.

Original thread title: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens

Views: 68957
Topic Start: March 17, 2013, 12:54:40 AM

The Author:

Libertad

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[CritMagnon]

Libertad


+1

So there's this 3rd-party product called 'The Genius Guide to Horrifically Overpowered Feats.'

Released as an April Fool's Joke, it's meant to be exactly what it says on the tin.  But then I saw a few reviews, which mentioned that only a few feats were horrifically overpowered, and quite a few of them made for nice boost to the noncasters.

One review, however, said that aside from the more blatant ones, they were no more overpowered than what a well-built Core Wizard could do.  And a lot of the feats are geared towards non-casters.

Okay, it's a joke product.  But what makes this significant?  Well, it's written by Owen KC Stevens, a dude who's done quite a bit of work with Wizards of the Coast and on the Pathfinder RPG.  And it has this blurb:

In many ways, these feats are classic bad examples, doing exactly the sorts of things feats shouldn’t. If you ever design a feat you expect to work in a normal campaign and it looks a lot like one of these feats, that’s a clear sign you’ve done something wrong.

So if the feats aren't very powerful, and it's heavily geared towards martial characters, I can't help but wonder if it's reflective of the pro-caster bias which permeates Pathfinder.  Even worse, it might just turn people off from genuinely Nice Things for Fighters if the fixes smack of 'overpoweredness.'  But that's probably me taking things too seriously.

And it has a sequel product, too!  And I got to see some actual feat descriptions in this one beyond a table!

Who knows, I might do a review when I buy the products!  Let's see what I've got in the previews:

Animated Leap: You can make a long jump up to your movement rate without an Acrobatics check, or a high jump equal to 1/2 that.  It has a feat tax of 2 bad feats (Acrobatic, Run), and you cannot change your route mid-jump.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Overland Flight still exists in Pathfinder.

Arcane Armor Lord: You ignore all arcane spell failure.  Proficiency in Medium Armor, 11th level, and 2 feats (Arcane Armory Training & Mastery).

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Very powerful, in that it can grant a nice AC bonus, but spell effects can grant miss chances, and its at a high enough level that a Sorcerer/Wizard can pull up stuff to negate attacks.

Backswing Attack: 3 times per day, as a free action, you can roll a new attack against a new opponent within reach if you miss the original opponent in melee.  Pre-requisite of +6 BAB.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Very situational, slightly less useful than Great Cleave.




Prime32

Backswing Attack: 3 times per day, as a free action, you can roll a new attack against a new opponent within reach if you miss the original opponent in melee.  Pre-requisite of +6 BAB.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Very situational, slightly less useful than Great Cleave.

That's actually weaker than Perfect Strike. *bg_banghead.gif*




Slaughterhouserock


I have the first one and it has some...interesting feats.  There's two feats that, when combined, will give you 18's in all stats(one for mental, one for physical).  There's a feat that is essentially IHS once per day, meta-attack feats which are the core metamagic feats for weapons, iterative attacks for casting spells(at increasingly lower CL), gestalt, Go First(guess what this does), gain spells from a spellcasting class of your choosing at half level, set your BAB to your HD regardless of class, etc.

Also, in the credits, Owen's referred to as Owen “Wide-Girthed God of d20 Rules Crunch” Stephens. 




Sinfire Titan

Animated Leap: You can make a long jump up to your movement rate without an Acrobatics check, or a high jump equal to 1/2 that.  It has a feat tax of 2 bad feats (Acrobatic, Run), and you cannot change your route mid-jump.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Overland Flight still exists in Pathfinder.

Agreed. Hell we had the same ability in regular 3.5 thanks to MoI. Shape Soulmeld: Airstep Sandals. And it has better prereqs!




StreamOfTheSky


So, I guess this list does not contain Spell Perfection, Persistent Spell, Dazing Spell, Quicken Spell, Flyby Attack, Split Hex, Split Major Hex, Divine Interference, any of the wizard's arcane discovery pseudo-feats, Selective Spell, Reach Spell.... ?




Libertad

So, I guess this list does not contain Spell Perfection, Persistent Spell, Dazing Spell, Quicken Spell, Flyby Attack, Split Hex, Split Major Hex, Divine Interference, any of the wizard's arcane discovery pseudo-feats, Selective Spell, Reach Spell.... ?

Of course not, you big silly goose!  All of the feats are new ones!

But it does have some goodies to make spellcasters even more powerful!

Owen KC Stephens is a very happy man, because I just made him seven dollars richer.  Soon I'll be doing an overview of the feats in this very thread, giving his product some free publicity.  I have to do this, for the children.

The first product mentions that the feats are Open Game Content, so I'm pretty sure I can do this hassle-free.

DESIGNATION OF PRODUCT IDENTITY: The Super Genius Games (SGG) and OtherWorld Creations (OWC) company names and logos; the “Genius Guide To: Horrifically Overpowered Feats” name and logo; all artwork, backgrounds, and logos; all trade dress, and graphic design elements.

DECLARATION OF OPEN CONTENT: All game mechanics, proper names of classes, prestige classes, archetypes, feats, skills, spells, magic items, monsters, rituals, artifacts AND OR the names of abilities presented within this book are Open Game Content as described in Section 1(d) of the License.

Libertad

Libertad's Review of The Genius Guide to Horrifically Overpowered Feats

Because It Must Be Done

Introduction

So basically the book opens up with a blurb of how these feats are not meant to be used in campaigns, for the sanity of players and Dungeon Masters.  But it knows that those brave or foolish enough to implement them in Pathfinder games are going to ignore these warnings, so it lays out suggestions and general overview of [Horrifically Overpowered] feats.

Yes, you read that right, [Horrifically Overpowered] is its own type.  Any feat marked as such can't ever be taken them as a bonus feat due to race or class; you can have a maximum of 1 Horrifically Overpowered Feat at 1st level, 2 at 3rd level, and an additional 1 every 3 levels thereafter.  Keep in mind that the feat progression in Pathfinder is faster than normal 3.X, so you can't just unload all your feat slots on them.

And another (but no less important) reason for the new type is that in case anybody copies the feats as part of Open Game Content, interested parties can be properly warned ahead of time.  This ends Owen Stephens' public service announcement.

The second type of feat descriptor is [Meta-Attack].  Basically, they're like Meta-Magic feats, but for normal weapon and natural attacks.  They can be used a certain number of times per day, and most of them are activated as a swift or free actions.  All such feats are also Horrifically Overpowered, and you can gain additional uses per day as you gain levels (1 additional use to be applied to the Meta-Attack feat of your choice at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter).

The Trial: For the purposes of this review, I'll be acting as judge, jury, and executioner.  The accused party is Owen KC Stephens, and his crime is false advertising of overpowered feats.  After each feat's description, I'll lay down the verdict as to whether the feat in question is Horrifically Overpowered.  In the rare case I cannot decide one way or the other, I'll turn things over to the community to decide on my behalf.  If you disagree with any of my conclusions, feel free to state your case.

And now that that's out of the way, here are the Feats:

Denied
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can simply refuse to be affected by a specific attack, spell, or ability.
Benefit: Once per day as a free action, you can decide to not be affected by a single attack, combat maneuver, spell, or effect. All its effects on you are immediately negated. This decision must be made as soon as you are aware of the effect you wish to negate. Only a single use of the effect is negated -- if you prevent an ancient red dragon from grappling you, that does not prevent it from making a new grapple check on its next attack. You may use this twice per day at 8th level, and one more time per day for every additional 8 levels you gain, to a maximum of six times per day at 40th level.

The verdict: Overpowered.  It's pretty much a versatile way of avoiding negative effects and will save the PC's bacon quite a bit.  But you must be aware of the effect occurring, and in some circumstances the enemy can repeat the action on its next turn.

Edit: StreamoftheSky pointed out in his post that a no-fail ability to nullify any attack can indeed be overpowered in its versatility, while Sor0 said that it's poorly worded enough to cause many headaches (especially in regards to territorial effects).  Concerned Ninja Citizen pointed out the lack of duration and specifics and ignoring "effects" such as gravity.

Empowered Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-attack]
A limited number of times per day, you can focus all your power and rage into an attack.
Benefit: Two times per day as a swift action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be an empowered attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll.  An empowered attack increases the damage it does by 50%.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  This is a nice feat for chargers and damage-dealers, but given that straight hit point damage is not an overall effective forms of offense in Pathfinder, it's not going to get balls-to-the-wall crazy.

Enlarged Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-attack]
A limited number of times per day, you can concentrate all your attention and will on the accuracy of one attack.
Benefit: Four times per day as a swift action, you may declare one weapon attack to be an enlarged attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll. If the attack is with a ranged weapon, the range increment of the attack doubles.  If the attack is with a melee weapon, you may throw it as a ranged thrown weapon (not taking the normal penalty for throwing a melee weapon) with a range increment of 30 feet.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Spells with Long range increments can still outpace archers with this feat (who can get about 220 feet increments with a composite longbow).  And turning any melee weapon into a thrown weapon isn't that bad.

Eschew Foci
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You have no need for idols and mirrors to cast spells.
Prerequisite: Eschew Materials
Benefit: You do not need to fulfill the focus or divine focus components of spells in order to cast them.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Foci are pretty much reusable material components, and are not very expensive to purchase.  Now, if it allowed you to ignore material components, then it would be Horrifically Overpowered.

Eschew Gestures
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You have no need to wiggle your fingers to cast spells.
Prerequisite: Still Spell
Benefit: You do not need to fulfill the somatic components of spells in order to cast them. You effectively treat all the spells you cast as if they had been cast using the Still Spell metamagic feat, but the spell’s level does not change, and no extra time is required to cast it.

The verdict: Depends.  The best use I can think of is for gish builds, who can swing around a greataxe or dual-wield scimitars while casting spells without having to drop and sheathe weapons all the time.  Plus it also has a feat tax of a feat you won't be using anymore.

However, it allows spellcasters to cast spells while hindered, restrained, and grappled, but spells still provoke an attack of opportunity.  It can get overpowered if combined with Supernatural Spell Monster, which takes care of the AoO problem.

Eschew Incantations
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You have no need to speak to cast spells.
Prerequisite: Silent Spell
Benefit: You do not need to fulfill the verbal components of spells in order to cast them. You effectively treat all the spells you cast as if they had been cast using the Silent Spell metamagic feat, but the spell’s level does not change, and no extra time is required to cast it.

The verdict: Overpowered.  Silence is no longer a poor man's Anti-Magic Field for enemy spellcasters, and it eliminates a big weakness of spellcasters.

Extended Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-attack]
A limited number of times per day, you can drive an attack deep into a foe to insure the wound continues to tear and bleed, at least briefly.
Benefit: Three times per day as a swift action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be an extended attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll.  If the attack hits, the target suffers bleed damage at the beginning of its next round.  For this bleed, roll the extended attack’s damage again, using the same modifiers as the original attack.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Since you have to declare it before the attack roll, there's a chance that you'll miss or roll low damage.  It's pretty much a free second attack, but only on the next round.  Very nice feat for martials.

Extra Lives
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are just hard to kill.
Benefit: Your character can come back from the dead, with no penalty, three times in its total career. This happens at the end of whatever encounter you died in, unless that would cause your character to immediately die again (such as if your body was dropped into a pool of lava). In that case, you return to life at some safe location within a week, at the GM’s discretion. If you think your character is likely to be raised quickly and easily, you may choose not to use this ability when you die, in which case it does not count against your three total uses of this feat.
Special: This feat can be taken more than once. (Although, really, you need to take Toughness if you’re dying that often.  Or maybe Dodge. Or just stand closer to the cleric.) Each time you take it, the number of times your character may freely return from the dead increases by three.

The verdict: Not overpowered, especially at higher levels.  Unlike other feats, it has a limited use, and becomes useless after 3 deaths.  At low levels it can help increase PC survivability, and at high levels Save or Die effects are increasingly common.  Given the way the feat works, 'death' is still a penalty as it takes you out of the game for 1 week.  You'll still have to sit things out if the party's in a dungeon or doesn't have time to wait around for you to come back.

More to come soon!




ImperatorK


Eschew Gestures and Eschew Incantations are much better versions of Automatic Silent Spell and Automatic Still Spell (both Epic feats in 3.X). You can count on those caster-fetishists to give casters unlimited-use feats, but martials have uses per day. 




Libertad

Part Two of the Review

Extra Meta-Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered]
Benefit: You gain additional uses of meta-attack feats. You gain two additional uses per day, plus one additional use for every meta-attack feat you have. This does not allow you to use meta-attack feats you have not taken, only to get extra uses for meta-attack feats you have. You may spend these extra uses on any meta-attack feat you have, as long as you do not exceed 2 + (total meta-attack feats) per day in additional uses of all your meta-attack feats.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Yeah, it grants a lot of additional uses, but keep in mind that you're spending one of your limited feat slots on it, further limited by the one per 3 levels schematic for Horrifically Overpowered feats.  So if you're 12th level, and spent 5 of your 6 available feats on Extra Meta-Attack and other Meta-Attacks, you deserve to gain 6 additional uses spread out among them: your character's limited resources are built around being 'Meta."  And I have yet to see any truly crazy Meta-Attacks so far to drive me into conniption fits.

Favored
[Horrifically Overpowered]
The universe likes you, and gives you gifts.
Benefit: For every HD you have, you may select one favored class benefit from any character class. This is in addition to favored class benefits you receive if you actually take a level in a favored class. For more information on favored class benefits, see the Advanced Player’s Guide.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  I've seen the Favored Class Options in APG, and let me tell you, none of them are very impressive.

Full Casting Action
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can cast multiple spells as a fullround action, much like a warrior can make multiple attacks if his base attack bonus is high enough.
Prerequisite: Caster level 6.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can cast two spells that have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. The first spell is cast normally, while the second spell uses a caster level 5 lower than your normal caster level, and the DC of any saving throw it requires is reduced by 2.

The verdict: Overpowered.  More spells per round!  If you can't think of ways to abuse this, you're not trying hard enough.

Gestalt
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are practically a member of two character classes, rather than just one.
Benefit: Select one character class. You gain all the class features (proficiencies and abilities listed in the “special” column of the class writeup) of that class other than spellcasting, as if half your total character level was your class level.  (If you are 1st level, gain only the armor and weapon proficiencies of your selected class until you reach 2nd level.) If you actually have levels in the selected class, you gain class features as if your class level was equal to your actual class level plus one-half of all your other levels.

The verdict: It's not like Unearthed Arcana's gestalt, in that it only grants class features as opposed to HD, BAB, Saving Throws, and Skills.  However, it's still overpowered in that can dramatically increase the power levels of PCs with a plethora of good abilities.  Score some Bardic Music for your Paladin, Sneak Attack and Rogue Talents for your Ranger, or Wild Shape for your Barbarian!

Go First
[Horrifically Overpowered]
No one can more before you. No one.
Prerequisite: Improved Initiative.
Benefit: You go first in any initiative order.  If there are multiple creatures present that have feats or abilities that state they each go first in any initiative order, those creatures roll initiative to see what order they go in, and all other creatures go after them (regardless of relative initiative check results).

The verdict: Going first is really important in combat, and can make the difference in battle.  Imagine a spellcaster with this thing!  Overpowered.

Greater Full Casting Action
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can cast up to 3 spells as a full-round action, much like a warrior can make multiple attacks if his base attack bonus is high enough.
Prerequisite: Caster level 11, Full Casting Action.
Benefit: This functions as Full Casting Action, except you can also cast a third spell with a casting time of 1 standard action or less.  The third spell uses a caster level 10 lower than your normal caster level, and the DC of any saving throw it requires is reduced by 5.

The verdict: In case you're unsatisfied with firing off 2 spells per turn, and need an even more Quadratic Wizard.  Overpowered.

Healing Factor
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You have a mutant healing factor.
Benefit: You gain fast healing equal to 1/3 your HD (minimum fast healing 1).

The verdict: Unless you consider the 15-minute adventuring day an important aspect of D&D, this feat is not overpowered.  It saves the Cleric and Wand of CLW user to use his resources on others during downtime, and the Fast Healing is not large enough to make a noticeable difference in combat.

Heighten Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
A limited number of times per day, you can put more muscle behind an attack to make it more effective against thick-skinned foes.
Benefit: Four times per day as a swift action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be a heightened attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll.  The attack ignores a number of points of DR and/or hardness equal to your base attack bonus.

The verdict: Easy ways to bypass DR with weapon types?  Check.  Limited uses per day?  Check.  Still shown up by magic attacks?  Check.  Not overpowered by a long shot.

The evidence is starting to turn against you, Mr. Stephens.  Your case can't afford another feat like this!

Heroic Grace
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are destined for greatness, and are thus unlikely to be petrified by a wandering monster.
Benefit: You may add your Int, Wis, or Cha bonus to all your saving throws, in addition to your normal ability modifier.  This does not stack with the paladin’s divine grace class feature, or any other ability that adds your Int, Wis, or Cha to all your saving throws. (You are still allowed to add your Wisdom bonus to your Will saves, as normal.)

The verdict: Paladins have Divine Grace, so at first glance I was inclined to strike this down as Not Overpowered.  But after some deliberation, I ruled otherwise.  It doesn't require a 2-level dip in a non-fullcasting class.  And high-level casters can easily pump their mental scores up to impressive levels.  Since Saving Throws are very important to have at high levels, it's easy for a Cleric, Druid, or Wizard to bust his Saves off the RNG.

I feared I may have underestimated you, Stephens.  I declare this feat Horrifically Overpowered.


I call for a 10-minute recess.  Court is now adjourned!




Sinfire Titan


You know, even though most of them are ridiculously bad, I still wouldn't allow them in one of my games. They break my suspension of disbelief far too much. The meta-attack feats especially (like IK said, casters can do it at-will).




Libertad


I made some edits to my original post, specifically regarding the rules of The Trial:

The Trial: For the purposes of this review, I'll be acting as judge, jury, and executioner.  The accused party is Owen KC Stephens, and his crime is false advertising of overpowered feats.  After each feat's description, I'll lay down the verdict as to whether the feat in question is Horrifically Overpowered.  In the rare case I cannot decide one way or the other, I'll turn things over to the community to decide on my behalf.  If you disagree with any of my conclusions, feel free to state your case.

SorO_Lost


I disagree with one of your conclusions, so I should state my case?

"Horrifically-Overpowered" as a term doesn't do Greater Full Casting Action justice. Perhaps "Holy crap they printed this?!" might?

(click to show/hide)

Ok seriously. I'm mostly in shock and awe at some of this stuff.
I can't believe they printed it and I'm glad you're taking the time to review it.

Garryl


Does Pathfinder still have the rule that you can cast a spell with a CL lower than the CL you'd normally have at the level you get the spell? That would put a damper on the Full Casting Action feats, since you'd be restricted to using your lower level spells. Not enough to remove it from the OP category, but it's worth noting.




Libertad

Does Pathfinder still have the rule that you can cast a spell with a CL lower than the CL you'd normally have at the level you get the spell? That would put a damper on the Full Casting Action feats, since you'd be restricted to using your lower level spells. Not enough to remove it from the OP category, but it's worth noting.

*Rummages through the stacks of legal documents.*

Ah, here it is!

A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the Dc of the check).

The lowering of Caster Level in Pathfinder prevents a spellcaster from utilizing his full arsenal of spells with the feat.

Regardless, it is still a very useful feat for higher-level spellcasters to have.  Imagine multiple Evard's Black Tentacles in the same round, or Acid Fog followed by Telekinesis!

I still regard it as an overpowered feat for the potential spell combos it can unleash.


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StreamOfTheSky


+1

My thoughts so far...

Denied: Overpowered.  It's wings of cover for the whole family.  Negating anything at all 100% is broken.  Also to nitpick... if it says free action but lacks the words “that you can use out of turn”.... does that mean the feat is technically useless?

Meta-Attacks: None are overpowered, and WTF having daily limits AND needing a swift?  Why don't casters have to take it up the ass like this?

Eschew Foci: Mildly broken.  Some foci are fairly expensive.  It has no price limit like eschew materials.

Eschew Gestures/Incantation: Broken.  Removes significant caster weaknesses and helps make every caster a druid (natural spell, cast in any form).

Favored: WTF does this even do?  The class specific ones advance class specific features.  If you have no bard levels, does getting +1/2 level to one type of bard performance actually do anything?  If this lets you double up on FC bonus for the class you're progressing, this is broken.  Most FC boni suck, but some caster ones ROCK.  Like bonus sorc spells known, or summoner getting +1/4 evo point.

Full-Casting Action: Possibly the most overpowered and broken feat I've ever seen.

Gestalt: Hmm...I think F-C Action still is holding the crown.  Barely.

Go First: Ok, this one might possibly be more broken than F-C Action.

Greater F-C Action: WTF?  Seriously guys, WTF?

Healing Factor: Overpowered at low levels, ok by 10th and on.

Heroic Grace: Super overpowered, a caster's wet dream, AND a slap in the face to the paladin class.  A trifecta of douche-baggery!  Well done, Owen!




Libertad

Court is now in session!

Here we continue the trial of Owen KC Stephens, game designer and head of Super Genius Games.  He produced for the reading public a book of feats, not a crime in and of itself.  But, he promised us that these feats would be 'Horrifically Overpowered,' in such a way as to boost a character's effectiveness and overall power, enough that a single one would be enough to boost a Monster's Challenge Rating by 2!  In his defense, he mentioned that an adversary's Challenge Rating is just a guideline, and that the feats do more than the official Pathfinder ones.  But are we to believe that a single of these feats is equivalent to 2 class levels worth of hit dice, class features, and a new spell level in the case of casters?

The trial continues.

Hex Maven
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
Your hexes are much more persistent than most witches’.
Benefit: Your hexes which state they can only affect a specific target once per day, can instead affect the same target a number of times per day equal to your Int bonus.

I am sure that there any many hexes in multiple sourcebooks, but I've so far located 2 hexes which qualify for this feat: Flight and Life Giver.  One grants Levitation, the other Resurrection without a material component.

The verdict: Normally I'd rate this one 'not overpowered.'  But there might be hexes in Pathfinder source books beyond Ultimate Magic which can be quite powerful, so I'll reserve judgment until I find more hexes (if there are any).  If no such hexes can be found, I'll rule this as 'not overpowered.'

Magic-User
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You’ve picked up a considerable amount of spellcasting above and beyond your normal training.
Benefit: Select one spellcasting character class. You can cast spells as a member of this class of a level equal to half your total hit dice. (If you are 1st level, you cast spells as a 1st level member of the class, but can only cast 0-level spells).
Special: This feat may be selected more than once. (Why not?) Its effects do not stack. (Get real.) Each time it is selected, you must choose a new spellcasting class in which you gain spellcasting ability.

The verdict: This feat's tag is accurate.  Even a low-level Wizard or Cleric has many useful spells.  Combined with another class, it can be quite effective indeed.  And furthermore, it serves as a nice way to meet prestige class pre-requisites without multi-classing!

Master of Magic Items
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can use any magic item to its fullest.
Prerequisites: Use Magic Device as class skill.
Benefit: You can use any magic item, even if you would not normally be able to do so.

The verdict: The feat's wording is unclear.  Does this mean that there is no need for Use Magic Device, and all uses are successful?  Does it grant proficiency in all magic weapons?  Does it allow one to ignore the negative effects of alignment-based weapons and similar restrictions?

I turn to the community to judge in my stead for this one!

Maximize Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
Once per day, you can give an attack your all.
Benefit: Once per day as a swift action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be a maximized attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll. A maximized attack deals maximum damage.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  For weapons, the modifiers after the damage dice matter more than the dice itself.  Unlike fireballs and lightning bolts, the differences between minimums and maximums for longswords, battleaxes, and the like is miniscule (2-12 damage for a Medium greatsword).

Mental Paragon
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are the peak of mental perfection for your race.
Benefit: Your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma are a base of 18 (before racial and level-based adjustments). If you take this feat at first level and roll for ability scores, you may only roll for your physical statistics. For example, if your campaign normally has new characters roll six times for ability scores, rolling 4d6 and take the best 3 each time, you are only allowed to do this three times (using the values for your Str, Dex, and Con). If you take this feat at 1st level and use a point-buy for ability scores, you get only half as many points (round up) to buy your physical ability scores.

The verdict: Overpowered.  +4 skill points per level, +4 on related ability and skill checks, +4 on Will Saves, +4 on social skills, +4 on Save DCs for spells, and 4 additional beginning spells for a Wizard, and bonus spells per day.  Combine this with a +2 mental stat bonus, and you're golden!

Granted, this is not as overpowered in point buy games with primary spellcasters who rely upon one stat (just buy an 18).  But for dice rolling, it's great to have.

Offensive Combat Training
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You fight like a warrior-born.
Prerequisite: Defensive Combat Training
Benefit: Your base attack bonus is equal to your total hit dice.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  At most, it can grant a +5 or +10 increase in accuracy at 20th level, and is very dip-friendly for martial builds.  But it's not going to make a significant difference in your campaigns.

Physical Paragon
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are the peak of physical perfection for your race.
Benefit: Your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are a base of 18 (before racial and level-based adjustments). If you take this feat at first level and roll for ability scores, you may only roll for your mental statistics. For example if your campaign normally has new characters roll six times for ability scores, rolling 4d6 and take the best 3 each time, you are only allowed to do this three times (using the values for your Int, Wis, and Cha). If you take this feat at 1st level and use a point-buy for ability scores, you get only half as many points (round up) to buy your mental ability scores.

The verdict: Overpowered, but not as much so as Mental Paragon.  You're getting +4 on attack and damage rolls, +4 Fortitude and Reflex Saves, +4 hit points per level, +4 Armor Class, and +4 on related ability and skill checks.  It's a definite boon when you're rolling dice for stats, and for MAD martial builds.

Keep in mind for the Paragon feats that it does not preclude the other from being taken, nor does it explicitly state that it must be taken at 1st level.  It just changes the base abilities to 18.

Perfect Blow
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
You can make a perfect attack.
Benefit: Once per day you can choose to make a single attack a perfect strike. Rather than make an attack roll, you hit any AC equal to 20 + your attack bonus or less. The attack automatically threatens a critical. The attack hits even if the target has a defense that would normally cause the attack to be ineffectual or have a chance to be mistargeted, such as mirror image, displacement, concealment, invisibility, etherealness, or feats that allow an attack to be blocked or dodged. The attack bypasses any DR or other defense of the foe, but can be healed, recovered, or regenerated normally.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  It is a very nice ability for martial characters, and can foil many kinds of magical defenses.  However, one must still roll to confirm the critical threat.  I'd definitely allow this in my games.




Libertad

Part Four of the Review

Stephens was off to a bad start, but eventually he got back into the game with some truly, horrifically, overpowered feats such as Full-Cast Action, Magic-User, and Gestalt.

Will he be able to keep this up?  We've got 11 feats to go!

Prestigious
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are practically a member of a specific prestige class.
Prerequisites: Character level 6, no levels in selected prestige class.
Benefit: Select one prestige class. You gain all the class features (proficiencies and abilities listed in the “special” column of the class writeup) of that prestige class other than spellcasting.  Your effective level for the prestige class (to determine both what powers you receive, and any level-dependent effects of those powers) is one-half of (your HD -5), with a minimum of 1.

The verdict: At 20th level, you technically have 7.5 levels in a PrC.  Since it can skip all the prerequisites, I can see this open to some terrific abuse.  Overpowered.

Quicken Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
Once per day, you can make an attack faster than the eye can follow.
Benefit: Once per day as a free action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be a quickened attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll. A quickened attack is a swift action. Targets within 30 feet of you are flatfooted against a quickened attack. If it is a ranged attack, it does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Grants a free Sneak Attack for the Rogue at most, and it can't be used in conjunction with other Meta-Attacks.

Silent Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
A limited number of times per day, you can kill while silent as a shadow.
Benefit: Three times per day as a free action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be a silent attack.  You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll. A silent attack does not end any Stealth you are using, does not count as an attack for the invisibility spell, and cannot be traced back to you with a Perception check.

The verdict: Really ups the power and potential of Rogues, but a high-level wizard with magic can avoid detection better.  Not to mention that a Rogue can still be foiled by Blind-sight, True Seeing, and similar things.

I can see this as Overpowered, in that a well-built Rogue can remain effectively out of sight for the entire encounter.  But it can only be used for one attack per use.  I defer judgment to the community.

Edit: Not overpowered.  Sor0_Lost and Concerned Ninja Citizen mentioned that it's limited use cuts down on its potential for abuse.

Skill Domination
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are an expert in a wide range of skills.
Benefit: All skills count as class skills for you. You can always make a skill check untrained.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  In Pathfinder, a class skill grants a +3 bonus, and it doesn't make you any better at untrained skills.

Skill God
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are the best at one thing you do.
Benefit: Select one skill. Whenever you must make a check for this skill, you always act as if you had rolled a 20.
Special: This feat can be taken more than once. Its effects can’t logically stack, but if you can talk your GM into believing you should get to “roll 40” on a skill check, go ahead. The idea, however, is that each time you select it, it applies to a different skill.

The verdict: Depends upon the skill.  Knowledge checks may not be so bad, but it's pure win for common skills such as Perception and Spellcraft (for things such as concentrating on a spell).

Spell Shifting
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can twist your spells into different spells.
Benefit: You have access to pattern spells.  You have a number of pattern spells equal to your HD, to a maximum of two pattern spells per spell level. When you select a spell as a pattern spell it must be a spell of a class and level you are able to cast, and the choice cannot normally be changed. You are allowed to swap out one pattern spell for a new choice at every even level. How pattern spells work depends on how you cast spells.  If you are a preparation spellcaster (such as the cleric, druid, and wizard), pattern spells are spells you can cast in place of a prepared spell of the same level or higher, in the same way a cleric can replace a prepared spell for a cure spell. Your pattern spells must be selected from spells you could prepare if you chose to (nearly any class spell for clerics, but limited to spells in your spellbook for wizards).  If you are a spontaneous spellcaster (such as the bard and sorcerer), pattern spells are additional spells known, which you can cast once per day by using a spell slot of the same level or higher. If you ever gain one of your pattern spells as a spell known, you may replace it with a new pattern spell of the same level.

The verdict: Overpowered.  You know how Clerics and Druids can spontaneously convert spells into Cures and Summons?  Well, this feat can grant you up to 20 more!  With the right selection, your spellcasters will never have to worry about preparing the wrong spells again!

Still Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
A limited number of times per day, you can kill without moving.
Benefit: Three times per day as a free action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be a still attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll. A still attack does not require for your arms to be free or that you move, and can be made while you are grappled or pinned (without requiring a grapple check to do so), held or paralyzed.

The verdict: Not overpowered, but it sounds totally awesome, so Stephens gets my respect for the idea if not the execution.  Aside from getting paralyzed or grappled, there's not many opportunities that you'll get to use this.





Libertad


Part Five: The Final Stretch

Of the 32 feats we've reviewed so far, I ruled that 16 of them are Not Overpowered, 11 as Overpowered, 2 varies in use,  3 left to the community's judgment 17 Not Overpowered, 12 Overpowered, 2 varies in use, 1 left to the community's judgment.  Even if the last four are Overpowered, and the community judges the undecided feat as Overpowered, it would mean that only half of the Feats in this guide are indeed Overpowered.

StreamoftheSky pointed out that 100% negation can be overpowered, but the feat did not specify that it can be used out of turn, and so I changed it.  I will do the Final Four write-ups soon.

Edit: Here they are!

Supernatural Spell Monster
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You’re not really a spellcaster, but you might be mistaken for one.
Benefit: Select one class you have levels in that casts spells. Though you must meet the casting time and all the prerequisites of those spells to use them, they do not count as spells. For rules purposes, they function as supernatural powers.

The verdict: Goodbye, pesky Attacks of Opportunity!  Overpowered.

Ultimate Full Casting Action
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can cast up to 4 spells as a fullround action, much like a warrior can make multiple attacks if his base attack bonus is high enough.
Prerequisite: Caster level 16, Full Casting Action, Greater Full Casting Action.
Benefit: This functions as Greater Full Casting Action, except you can also cast a fourth spell with a casting time of 1 standard action or less. The forth spell uses a caster level 15 lower than your normal caster level, and the DC of any saving throw it requires is reduced by 7.

The verdict: Overpowered like its predecessors.

Unflappable
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are the sort of person who says “I would not be a bit surprised if the dragon is an illusion and we’re actually surrounded by invisible ninjas.” What’s more, you really aren’t a bit surprised when that turns out to be the case.
Prerequisite: Alertness.
Benefit: You are never surprised, and never flat-footed.

The verdict: Basically poor man's Foresight, except permanent and accessible at lower levels.  You always act in the surprise round, and negate the offensive potential of many Rogues.  I say that it's overpowered because it negates the Rogue's Sneak Attack in most circumstances, is a no-brainer for characters who boost their AC via mobility, and replicates the best features of a 9th-level spell.

Widen Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
A limited number of times per day, you can lay about you in a frenzy of blows to kill foes near and far.
Benefit: Three times per day as a swift action, you may declare one weapon attack, natural attack, or unarmed attack to be a widened attack. You must make this declaration prior to making your attack roll.  A widened attack allows you to compare your attack roll to the AC of every foe in any four spaces (each adjacent to at least one other of the four spaces, and all within 1 space of an area you threaten). Each foe whose AC is exceeded by your attack roll takes damage from the attack.

The verdict: Basically Whirlwind Attack, sans the ridiculous number of prerequisites and limited in use.  Not overpowered.


And the very last picture in this book before the credits and SRD is of a female ninja wielding a blade amid a swarm of cherry blossoms, her nipples poking through her skin-tight suit and sporting a faint case of camel-toe.  I guess this fanservice is meant as a reward for reading through this thing.

Anyway, this brings our review to a close!  18 Not Overpowered, 15 Overpowered, 2 varies in use, and 1 still left to the community's judgment!  The book's advertisement was 41% correct, but at three bucks I can't really complain.

Expect a review for the Guide to More Horrifically Overpowered Feats in due time.




SorO_Lost

StreamoftheSky pointed out that 100% negation can be overpowered, but the feat did not specify that it can be used out of turn, and so I changed it.  I will do the Final Four write-ups soon.

Do you think it's because Free Actions can be used whenever you want to begin with?

Edit - It also places no limitation on Duration, only it's Single Use based, nor that is has to be used in response to right now either (in fact it suggests at any point).
You can wake up one day and decide Gravity is an "effect", gain immunity to it for the rest of your life.
Which is kind of a stupid example, but you get what I mean.

Edit 2 - Does PF have Tome of Battle? Like Feral Death Blow deals an additional 20d6 damage on a successful Save. Not saying it's some kind of Saving Grace to making those Feats OP, but there is more to it than a 2d6 being Maximized (it sounds like it applies to Sneak Attack too btw).

Edit 3 - Master of Magic Items, you can use any magic item to it's fullest...
Maybe it's a Colossal +5 Starburst Necromantic Ballast, maybe it's not. But you can use it.

Edit 4 - Deserves a note. I thought "Full-Attack" spellcasting and freebie Gestated was bad. Prestigious (Beholder Mage) with Supernatural Spell Monster. *shudders*

Still can't get over the fact this crap was compiled into and book and they charged you money to read it. DnDWiki is free and their both largely a joke, just saying.




Libertad


@Sor0:

Edit 1: I checked Free Actions in the Pathfinder SRD, and only Immediate Actions specified that they could be used out of turn.

Edit 2: No, Pathfinder has no Tome of Battle Equivalent.

Edit 3: So that's a "yes" to all my questions in the verdict?

Edit 4: Why do you view Full Action Casting and Gestalt as bad feats?

Just for readers, the last feat to be decided is:

Master of Magic Items

I ruled Hex Maven as Not Overpowered, but only because I saw no other 1st-party Hexes which can greatly benefit from this.

[CritMagnon]

SorO_Lost

@Sor0:

1. You know, it's late and I should have known that. Same for D&D side, except you can burn a Standard Action to ready a Free Action (maybe same in pf).
2. Because that'd be to melee friendly right? Didn't know that, kind of half checking.
3. I'm thinking so. I mean it says you can use it, to it's fullest is flavor to me so I'd rule allowed to use doesn't mean you get infinite Runestaff usage. But it's wording is so horrible that if this was official rules, it'd pop up in the fun Finds thread and people would debate it.
4. They are super horrendously horrifically spork overpowered. And I'm not even sure why I used spork to describe it, that's just how bad (good?) it is.

Silent Attack
Mosquito's Bite is a Skill Trick that delays any opponent from responding to your attack for one round. You still break Invisibility-Effects since you attacked, but not knowing you were attacked and lost half you're hit points is a heck of a lot better than 3/day Invisibility becomes Greater. And you could end up sniping every guard in a castle with it since it's once per encounter and as the dude sneaking around you control when confrontations start.

Denied: OP, Someone cast Fimblewinter last week? Ignore it and watch your DM's head explode as he tries to figure out how to handle it.
Master of Magic Items: OP, grants instant allowance of use even if normally unable. So you can use enchanted ship hulls as a weapon? o.O
Silent Attack: I wouldn't even take it with a Rogue. Even Monk 2 pulls ahead since you can just reinvisible your self.




Concerned Ninja Citizen


Silent Attack is fine. Nice effect but at 3/day it's not even one of the more powerful feats out there.

Denied: It does specify that the effect is only negated "for you" which leaves out the godawful Ironheart Surge loophole stuff like turning off the sun.

On the other hand, the lack of duration or any sort of specifics on what kind of effect you can negate and when you can negate it (and the use of the word "negate" even modified by the "for you" clause) opens up a new set of stupid tricks like negating falling damage and claiming that the "effect" of gravity no longer applies to you.

I'd say the 1/day use limit means its only overpowered because it's so badly written. Used as it seems to have been intended it is only moderately more powerful than IHS or Wings of Cover and both of those can be used multiple times per day.

On the whole it's reasonable to call it overpowered.

Master of Magic Items: Yeah, I have no fucking clue what this is supposed to do either. At first glance I assumed it let you auto pass UMD checks but it's so ambiguous it could mean absolutely anything (or nothing) at all. I'd call this one "broken" in the sense that it doesn't work.

On the book in general, I think you were being a bit lenient with some of those feats. They weren't just billed as "overpowered" but as "horrifically overpowered." Even some of the ones that are legitimately overpowered are only moderately so. For feats that were written as jokes, I expect more.

I also suspect the MMB community could write their own guide to overpowered feats that was actually worthy of the name and let non casters get in on the fun.

After about 5 minutes contemplation, here's a stab:

Adaptive Fighting Style [Fighter, Horrifically Overpowered]
Your martial genius is such that you can change your approach to combat to fit the battle at hand.
Prerequisite: Fighter Level 6
Benefit: Once per encounter as a swift action you may replace any number of your [fighter] feats with other [fighter] feats for which you qualify. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter at which point you lose the benefit of the new feats and regain your original feats.

Does it need a "you may not replace prerequisites" clause or would feats you no longer qualify for just stop working?

Is this even overpowered?




Libertad


I'd like to thank all responsible parties for helping me come to a decision for the remaining feats!  Until I finish reviewing the 2nd book, my avatar will be changed to the coolest Judge of all: Judge Dredd!

I also suspect the MMB community could write their own guide to overpowered feats that was actually worthy of the name and let non casters get in on the fun.

After about 5 minutes contemplation, here's a stab:

Adaptive Fighting Style [Fighter, Horrifically Overpowered]
Your martial genius is such that you can change your approach to combat to fit the battle at hand.
Prerequisite: Fighter Level 6
Benefit: Once per encounter as a swift action you may replace any number of your [fighter] feats with other [fighter] feats for which you qualify. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter at which point you lose the benefit of the new feats and regain your original feats.

Does it need a "you may not replace prerequisites" clause or would feats you no longer qualify for just stop working?

Is this even overpowered?

It is overpowered if you allow the use of Fighter Feats from splatbooks.  Otherwise it's not, because PHB Fighter bonus feats are just not very exciting.

Also, in Pathfinder, there are no [Fighter] feats.  They're [Combat] feats, which the Fighter selects as bonus feats.  It's to cut down on unnecessary clutter, and allows other classes to have bonus [Combat] feats without saying "take Fighter feats as bonus feats."




Kaelik


1) Those stat changing ones are actually even more overpowered than you think, because I think you missed the biggest exploit:

It says that if you take it at level 1, you get half the PB for your physical stats. It doesn't specify that it must be taken at level 1.

Solution: Take it at level 2 (Pathfinder gives a feat at level 2 right?) or 3, in any game that starts higher than level 1.

32 PB for your Wizard becomes 18 Con, 18 Dex, 8 Str/Int/Wis/Cha, and then at level 2 or 3, you suddenly have 18s in every fucking stat except Str at the low cost of a few skill points. (Remember, Pathfinder doesn't give 4 times as much at level 1, so you really are just missing out on 5 or 10 skill points, depending on whether Pathfinder gives a feat at level 2).

2) Master of Magic Items is pretty much shit. I mean, yeah, it is really unclear what it is supposed to do, but what it actually does is let you use magic items you wouldn't be able to. So... who fucking cares.

I mean, it doesn't let you use Staves at higher CL than minimum, so it is basically just worse than having ranks in UMD. It is functionally identical to a +19 UMD bonus for wands, and a slightly higher one for scrolls, who cares.




Keldar

I also suspect the MMB community could write their own guide to overpowered feats that was actually worthy of the name and let non casters get in on the fun.

After about 5 minutes contemplation, here's a stab:

Adaptive Fighting Style [Fighter, Horrifically Overpowered]
Your martial genius is such that you can change your approach to combat to fit the battle at hand.
Prerequisite: Fighter Level 6
Benefit: Once per encounter as a swift action you may replace any number of your [fighter] feats with other [fighter] feats for which you qualify. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter at which point you lose the benefit of the new feats and regain your original feats.

Does it need a "you may not replace prerequisites" clause or would feats you no longer qualify for just stop working?

Is this even overpowered?

Nah, that's not overpowered.  You still have 6 levels of Fighter after all!  Let you ignore feat prerequisites too, then you may be on to something.


Nope [Horrifically Overpowered, Mook]
Prerequisite: None
Benefit: You may, as no action, resolve one spell, spell-like ability or supernatural power as if you were immune to it.  Once you use this feat in response to one individual's action, you may not use it again in response to them that encounter.

[Mook] Feats cannot be taken by anyone with the ability to cast spells.  If you take a [Mook] Feat and later take a level in a class that grants spell casting you lose the benefits of the feat, you stupid mook.

Winning [Horrifically Overpowered, Pointless]
Prerequisite: Hyper Competitive, Clueless.
Benefit: You win D&D!  Congratulations!  Everyone must acknowledge your winningness.  You can go do something else now, like go outside or finally try and kiss a girl.
Special:  Ok, he's gone now.  You can get back to playing.  Who's turn is it to order pizza anyway?




Libertad


+1

Owen Stephens Strikes Again!  Libertad's Review of the Guide to More Horrifically Overpowered Feats!

Last time we left off, we found that Owen Stephens' last work had many Overpowered Feats, but even more of the feats were not overpowered at all!  Normally I'd rule him as GUILTY, but the Book wasn't completely deceptive.  Let's see how his next work fares!

Upon glancing at the cover, I'm noticing a theme.  Once again we're graced with the image of an Asian woman in skin-tight clothing with slightly visible nipples; the oversized sword is a new addition.  In front of her, at the bottom of the frame, is a white-haired bishonen with an eye-patch and a gun in his left hand and streams of fire emanating forth from his right.  And the strange, alien-looking old woman on the left makes a trio.

Being no stranger to Grognards.txt, I've noticed that accusations of 'overpowered' and 'Anime/Asian' often go hand-in-hand together (particularly among AD&D players).  I do not have any hard evidence to prove that Stephens associates the two together, but I didn't survive this long in the Edition Wars to smell a rat.

We covered the first three feats in the OP, but I didn't copy-paste them.  Now that I know I can do so safely, here they are in all their glory!

Animated Leap
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can make vast jumps, well beyond the range of normal mortals.
Prerequisites: Acrobatic, Run.
Benefit: You can move your entire movement in a round as one or more jumps without making Acrobatics checks. If you take an action that allows you to move farther than your normal movement rate (such as the run action), you may make this entire movement as a leap or series of leaps. Each leap must be straight, must end on a surface able to support you (though if you have Dandelion Tread, see below, that’s pretty much any surface), and takes you to an altitude equal to 1/3 of the distance jumped. The highest you can jump is equal to 50% of your normal movement rate. You must declare each leap in advance (indicating where you jump from and your planned destination), and cannot change your route if you discover an invisible wall of force in the way, or you suddenly expose yourself to fire from a column of archers with readied actions.

The verdict:Not overpowered.  Seriously, what is up with people cringing in fear of people jumping far without spells?  I mean, it's not like the Pathfinder designers tossed away Overland Flight!  Two feat tax, all for some enhanced mobility.

Arcane Armor Lord
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
You are too skilled at casting in armor to be hindered by the limited range of motion armor leaves you.
Prerequisites: Arcane Armor Training, Arcane armor Mastery, Medium Armor Proficiency, caster level 11th.
Benefit: You ignore arcane spell failure.

The verdict: Like I said before, Not Overpowered.

Backswing Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
When your attacks bounce off a foe’s armor, you can use the momentum to backswing against another target.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: Three times per day, as a free action, when you make a weapon attack, unarmed attack, or natural weapon attack, and miss your target (but successfully hit the target’s touch AC), you may immediately reroll the attack as an attack against another target. This attack counts as the same attack for purposes of abilities that only work on a single attack roll, and the new target must be one you could have attacked instead of your original target.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Worse than Perfect Strike, and slightly worse than Great Cleave.

Brow Cut
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
You cut a foe’s brow causing blood from the wound to flow into its eyes.
Benefit: Once per round as a free action, when you hit and damage a foe with a slashing weapon, you cause the foe to be dazzled for one round, +1 round per 5 points of your base attack bonus. Any magic healing directed specifically at healing the wound bleeding into the target’s eyes ends this effect, though it does not also restore hit points.
Special: Characters with Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple may also take this feat, calling it Eye Gouge, and using it when they hit a foe with an unarmed attack.

The verdict: Look up the Dazzled Condition.  Now tell me with a straight face that this is Horrifically Overpowered.  Go ahead, make my day.

Channel Brightly
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can channel energy of an impressive intensity.
Prerequisite: Ability to channel energy, Improved Channel, Selective Channeling.
Benefit: when you channel energy, you may simultaneously heal all creatures you can heal with the ability, and harm all creatures you could harm with the ability. For example, Xasha is a 16th level cleric that channels positive energy with Alignment Channel (evil), Channel Brightly, Improved Channel, and Selective Channeling. When she channel energy, she can heal living creatures and harm undead and evil outsiders (using the same channeling dice for both), or heal living creatures and evil outsiders and harm undead.

The verdict: Not overpowered from the sounds of it.  Hell, it sounds nigh-useless unless you're using channeling surrounded by enemy and ally Outsiders of the same alignment!

Cohort Familiar
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You have forged a bond with a much more powerful familiar than the norm.
Prerequisites: Improved Familiar, Leadership, ability to acquire a familiar.
Benefit: Your cohort (from the Leadership feat) becomes your familiar. It’s alignment does not change, but it is devotedly loyal and obedient to you, regardless of any difference in alignment. Cohort familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature’s type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and cohort familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).  Your Leadership score does not take a penalty from having a familiar if it is a cohort familiar.

The verdict: Overpowered.  Deliver a touch spell through your Barbarian familiar, and give him Improved Evasion early!

Combat Assault
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
You can increase your accuracy at the expense of your defense.
Prerequisite: Wis 13.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on your Armor Class to gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and combat maneuver checks.  When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the AC penalty increases by –1 and the attack bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat at the beginning of your turn, before moving or making any attacks. The effects of this feat last until the beginning of your next turn.

The verdict: I will not call it such here or there.  I would not call it that anywhere. I will not do it while I eat, I will not compare it to Animated Leap, I will not call this a horrifically overpowered feat.

Combat Vigilance
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
You never let your guard down.
Prerequisites: Alertness or Combat Casting.
Benefit: Once per round, as a free action, when you take an action that normally provokes an attack of opportunity, you may decide to not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each additional time you take it, add one to the number of times you can stand from prone (or whatever) without having an orc stab you for it.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Perhaps it might be in single combat, and if the opponent does not have Combat Reflexes.  Otherwise it's nice, but not stellar.

Concussive Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
When you deal bludgeoning damage, you leave your foes reeling.
Benefit: Three times per day, as a swift action, when you make a weapon attack, unarmed attack, or natural weapon attack that deals bludgeoning damage, you may declare it to be a concussive attack. In addition to its normal damage, a concussive attack causes creatures that take damage from it to take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks for a number of rounds equal to 1, +1 per 5 points of your base attack bonus.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Isn't there like a bunch of ways to cause the shaken condition in opponents, which largely does the same thing?  Could have some nice synergy with demoralizing opponents, though.





Libertad

Those stat changing ones are actually even more overpowered than you think, because I think you missed the biggest exploit:

It says that if you take it at level 1, you get half the PB for your physical stats. It doesn't specify that it must be taken at level 1.

Solution: Take it at level 2 (Pathfinder gives a feat at level 2 right?) or 3, in any game that starts higher than level 1.

32 PB for your Wizard becomes 18 Con, 18 Dex, 8 Str/Int/Wis/Cha, and then at level 2 or 3, you suddenly have 18s in every fucking stat except Str at the low cost of a few skill points. (Remember, Pathfinder doesn't give 4 times as much at level 1, so you really are just missing out on 5 or 10 skill points, depending on whether Pathfinder gives a feat at level 2).

Point buy is slightly different in PF.  You can pull off 2 18s with Epic Fantasy, but you'd need to reduce the 4th 8 to a 7.  Feats are gained at 3rd level and every odd-numbered level thereafter.

If the game starts at level 1, you'd be a dead weight for the party because you can't cast spells.  Otherwise the exploit works.





Bozwevial


Re: Hexes, there are a fair few that are only usable on a given target once per day. Notable among those are a sleep effect with no HD limit and a short-lived roll d20s twice, take the worst result curse. Taking that feat makes some hexes not quite as useless (looking at you, healing) and turns others into save-or-lose buttons. Well, they were already that, but now you can keep pressing the button if the candy doesn't come out the first time.




Libertad

Re: Hexes, there are a fair few that are only usable on a given target once per day. Notable among those are a sleep effect with no HD limit and a short-lived roll d20s twice, take the worst result curse. Taking that feat makes some hexes not quite as useless (looking at you, healing) and turns others into save-or-lose buttons. Well, they were already that, but now you can keep pressing the button if the candy doesn't come out the first time.

Wow, and Slumber is right in the Advanced Player's Guide!

But save or lose spells are in abundance for higher-level full casters, and there's better options too.

Even then I don't think that's it's Overpowered.




Halinn


It also works for major hexes, such as Ice Tomb (another SoD, fortitude this time).

Evil Eye and Misfortune are supposed to be extended with Cackle after they have hit.

The main reason the feat here isn't overpowered, is that Accursed Hex already exists.




Libertad


+1

Part Two

It was a cold and dark rainy evening.  I was recently called to investigate a disturbance in the Pathfinder District of Drive-Thru RPG.  Place was full of interesting characters.  Back in 2008, the mayor was making all sorts of lofty promises about how it would be a new 3rd City, that they would not repeat the mistakes of the past.  But it never came to be; the neighborhood fell back into its old habits of spellcasters running wild and small-time publishers pushing broken, unplaytested products onto the streets.

Super Genius Games was one of the publisher gangs.  To all outward appearances they came off as just another small fish joining an overcrowded pond, but they were gaining a lot of clout around town, too much for a group of their size and resources.  Turns out they were getting marching orders from Owen "the Knife" Stephens, an associate of the notorious Paizo family.  Prime32 cautioned against me pursuing them, called me a loose cannon like he always does, said to focus on the guppies instead of the sharks.  But that's just not the kind of guy I am.

Dandelion Tread
[Horrifically Overpowered]
Your footsteps are so light you can stand on the slightest of structures, even a tiny flower.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Acrobatic Steps, Nimble Moves.
Benefit: You may move through difficult terrain as if it was not difficult terrain. You have a climb speed equal to your ground movement, and you can climb (or stand on) structures regardless of their ability to support your weight. As long as some object reaches a point you wish to go, you can run and stand there – even if it’s standing on water, walking across the tops of blades of grass, or walking down the sail of a ship.

The verdict: Not Overpowered.  Feat tax of 2 bad feats.  Spider Climb's a 1st level spell.  Water Walk is a 3rd level spell.  Up the Walls is a psionic feat which requires nothing but a 13 Wisdom.  Overland Flight still exists.  It's such a shame that Stephens views this as a feat not meant to be, because it's clearly cool and cinematic.

Elemental Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
When your attacks deal elemental damage, you can cause that damage to continue for 1 round.
Benefit: Four times per day as a swift action, when you make a weapon attack, unarmed attack, or natural weapon attack that deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, you may declare it to be an elemental attack. If a creature is hit by an elemental attack, it takes acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage at the start of its next turn. This damage is equal to the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage dealt by the elemental attack when it first hits.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  The elemental damage of weapon enhancements are around 1d6-3d6 energy damage.

"ZOMG, 3d6 damage the next round on a successful hit?!  Filthy weeaboo munchkin!"

Endless Cleave
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
Your weapon attacks are made in wide, lethal arcs.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Great Cleave, Improved Cleaving Finish, Power Attack, base attack bonus +9.
Benefit: Whenever you make a melee attack against a foe within reach, if you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using the same attack bonus as the initial attack) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. This is considered a use of the Cleave, Finishing Cleave, Great Cleave, or Improved Finishing Cleave feat. Each time you make an attack that is not instigated by a “cleave” feat, you cannot hit any given foe more than once with additional cleaving attacks.  Additionally, you no longer take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn when you cleave.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  It's not actually endless; read the Pathfinder version of Cleave, now the Cleaving Finish feats.  Now read the benefit description carefully: the foe must be adjacent to the enemy you just hit.  And you cannot hit a foe more than once with cleave attacks if one of your attacks against him is not triggered by a 'cleave' feat.

Yeah, a definite case of false advertising.  I expected an infinite combo, 4th Edition Orcus-Slayer style!

Escape Is Impossible!
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
You can latch onto a foe and be dragged wherever it goes.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Dex 13.
Benefit: Whenever you hit a foe with a weapon that is flexible over 2/3 or more of its length -- including the bladed scarf, cat-o’-nine-tails, dwarven chain-flail, flying blade, flying talon, harpoon (if a rope is attached), net, scorpion whip, spiked chain, snag net, whip, and various Asian weapons; but not flails or heavy flails – as a swift action you may make a grapple check. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the grapple check is successful, the foe is not grappled, but you wrap enough of your weapon around some part of the foe that wherever it goes, you are dragged along. You maintain a distance based on the length of your weapon (adjacent to the target for most weapons, 10 feet away for reach weapons, and a variable distance based on how much slack you leave in the case of weapons with greater length such as harpoons with ropes attached).

You gain the grappled condition as long as you hold onto your weapon, and must use at least one hand to maintain your grip (the GM may make exceptions for weapons with enough slack to tie the weapon around your waist). You may disengage your weapon from the target at any time, ending the grappled condition on yourself and ceasing your automatic movement with the target creature. If you are within range of the creature you may attack it with attacks you could make while grappled.  The target cannot free itself from your weapon, but it does have options to make you let go. If the creature is able to move through areas with multiple obstacles you might hit (such as a dragon flying through rocky crags, or a giant running through a forest), it can attempt to slam you against these painful protrusions as a free action if it takes at least a move action. A flying foe makes a fly check, while a running foe makes a CMB check. In both cases, you make an opposed Acrobatics check. If the foe’s check exceeds yours, you take damage equal to the difference between the two checks.

The target can also attack you freely, attempt to sunder the weapon, or take other appropriate countermeasures such as turning insubstantial.

The verdict: I'm sorry, but this feat strikes me on a personal level, and I'm afraid that my judgment will be tinged with emotion.  But here goes.

Not.
Fucking.
Overpowered.

Many years ago, before the dawn of Let's Plays and when the Gamecube was a current-gen console, I was DMing a Shackled City game.  The volcano erupted, engulfing the PC's home city in flames.  A flying dragon known as Hookface terrorized the fleeing citizens, menacingly circling about the grand cathedral of Wee Jas.  The Barbarian diligently climbed the scaffolding, rope and harpoon in hand, pressed against the cover of the building and waiting for the perfect opportunity: he'd latch onto the dragon, climb up to him, and start wailing at his scaly flesh with his trusty greataxe.

The party Wizard flew up to meet Hookface and tossed a Maximized Disintegrate spell at him.  The dragon failed the save, and crumbled into dust to the city streets below.

This was my moment of revelation, the first inkling that not all classes were equal, that D&D was far from a balanced game.  I would never look at things the same way again.

This is a great feat!  With a good readied action and a respectable grapple modifier, a melee character can close in on a downed flying opponent and actually contribute to the battle against aerial adversaries.  Even then, the enemy can still slam him against stuff to damage him, and it requires multiple Acrobatics rolls to avoid this complication.

Scratch that, this shouldn't even be a feat, it's something I expect all mid-high level characters can do.

Also notice the bolded entry under 'benefit.'  The overpowered/Asian connection is looking less and less like a coincidence the further I delve into this PDF.




Raineh Daze


Due to lack of specification on 'Asian weapons', I can only assume that, if I were so inclined, I am now allowed to grapple with a wakizashi, which is in no way suited to such things.




ariasderros

Due to lack of specification on 'Asian weapons', I can only assume that, if I were so inclined, I am now allowed to grapple with a wakizashi, which is in no way suited to such things.

The feat quoted references that the weapon must be flexible for 2/3 of its body.
They just didn't want to write out all of the rope and chain type weapons that are used in asian martial arts.





Libertad

Flaying Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
When you deal slashing damage, you can painfully flay the flesh from your foes.
Benefit: Three times per day as a swift action, when you make a weapon attack, unarmed attack, or natural weapon attack that deals slashing damage, you may declare it to be a flaying attack. In addition to its normal damage, a flaying attack causes creatures that take damage from it to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 +1/2 your base attack bonus + your Str or Dex bonus) or be dazed for one round.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Isn't it funny how all the martial feats which inflict status conditions on attacked foes are "horrifically overpowered," regardless of said status effect?  The dazed condition is one of the more powerful ones, but it's not like spellcasters lost their Save or Suck abilities.  At most, a character can "lock down" a single foe provided he continues hitting and the opponent keeps failing the save.

Flex
[Horrifically Overpowered]
Your appearance is so intimidating, just cracking your knuckles frightens people.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Dazzling Display.
Benefit: As a move action, you can make a display of your physique, pop your vertebrae by rolling your neck, or just put on your killing face. Make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 60 feet who can see your display.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  Feat Tax of 2 bad feats (Dazzling Display requires Weapon Focus) to do an AoE debuff.  Unlike fear-based spells, it has unlimited uses, but a -2 on attacks, skills, and saves isn't as powerful as a lot of battlefield control spells.

Greater Alignment Channel
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can channel energy to heal or harm all those of a specific ethos.
Prerequisite: Ability to channel energy, Alignment Channel, Improved Channel.
Benefit: When you choose to channel energy to affect an alignment you have selected with the Alignment channel feat, you may heal or harm all creatures of that alignment (rather than just outsiders). If you choose to heal or harm creatures of the chosen alignment, your channel energy has no effect on other creatures. The amount of damage healed or dealt and the DC to halve the damage is otherwise unchanged.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new alignment you have selected with the Alignment Channel feat. Whenever you channel energy, you must choose which type to effect.

The verdict: How is this overpowered?  It's still a limited use for the Cleric, and it still tops out at 10d6 at 19th level.  Congratulations, you can harm all creatures of Evil alignment with a Channel, or heal all creatures of Good alignment!

Imperial Spell
[Horrifically Overpowered, Metamagic]
Your magic can take command of the magic of others.
Benefit: You can cast a dispel magic, greater dispel magic, or disjunction spell as an Imperial Spell. When you use an imperial spell to counterspell a foe’s spell, you gain control of that spell. On the next round you may cast the spell you counterspelled without expending any spell slots of your own. You make all decisions regarding this spell (area, targets, and so on) and are considered the caster of the spell. If you do not cast the spell by the end of your next turn, it is lost.

An Imperial Spell takes a spell slot five levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

The verdict: Not overpowered.  The funny part about this feat is that by RAW it can't be used with Greater Dispel or Disjunction.  Even a normal Dispel Magic takes up an 8th-level slot with this feat, and  Greater Dispelling is normally 5th or 6th level depending upon your class.

Mega-Magic Spell
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You know a few spells you have made horrifically overpowered.
Prerequisites: Two or more metamagic feats.
Benefit: Select one spell you can cast. Its level may not be higher than half the highest level spell you can cast. Select one or more metamagic feats you know. The total level adjustments of these metamagic feats cannot exceed the level of the spell you have selected.  Whenever you cast the selected spell, you may choose to apply the selected metamagic feats without changing the spell’s level or casting time. You cannot also add other metamagic feats when you do this.

For example, Davor Runetusk is a 16th level half-orc wizard who knows fireball and has the Enlarge Spell and Maximize Spell feats. He takes Mega-Magic, and selects those two metamagic feats (with a total level adjustment of +4, half the level of the highest level spell he can cast – 8th), and fireball, allowing him to cast an Enlarged Maximized fireball as a 3rd level spell. If he decided to add another metamagic feat to the spell, he could not also apply the two feats he selected with Megamagic Spell for free (though he could add them with the normal increase in the fireball’s effective spell level).
Special: If your GM is crazy enough to let you take this feat once, there’s no reason not to let you take it multiple times. Its effects do not stack, though. Get real. Each time it is selected, it applies metamagic feats to a different spell known.

The verdict: Overpowered.  Persistent Spell as we know it does not exist in Pathfinder, but this feat is still open to some horrific abuse.

Metanatural
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can modify how your supernatural and spell-like abilities work.
Benefit: You can use metanatural points to apply metamagic feats you know (or have access to through a rod) to your spelllike and supernatural abilities. You have a number of metanatural points per day equal to 3 + your Int, Wis, or Cha bonus.  For every spell level higher than a spell’s normal level a metamagic feat uses, it takes one metanatural point to apply it to a spelllike or supernatural ability. You cannot use more metanatural points for a single use of an ability than 1/3 your hit dice.

The verdict: Overpowered.  It's really easy to get a lot of metanatural points for a caster, and you don't need to know the metamagic feats in order to use them (just have a rod handy).

Oversized Fighting
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can swing a sword WAY too big for you.
Prerequisites: Str 19, Lunge, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You can use weapons one size too large for you without penalty, and those two sizes two large for you as if they were one size too large. Thus a Medium creature with this feat can use a Large longsword in one hand without penalty, or a Large two-handed sword in two hands, or a Huge longsword as a two-handed weapon with a -2 attack penalty.
Special: While you take no penalties from using oversized weapons, this feat cannot prevent you from looking ridiculous.

The verdict:

Wait a second, this is Monkey Grip.  They think that Monkey Grip is Overpowered?!








awaken_D_M_golem


Full Casting Action ... is a slightly weaker Schism effect.
Let's say it's about a level 3 equivalent , but it's persisted.
But it's an (sp) , but it's an (su) , but it's an (ex) ...
So maybe it's like a level 7 or 8 spell effect very early.


Hey are these feats (su) or are they (ex) ??




ImperatorK


Imperial Spell - the Universalist Wizard (so basically any Wizard that's not a specialist) can apply metamagic feats for free by using Metamagic Mastery (gained at 8th level).
Oversized Fighting - Lighten Weapon is better.




Prime32

I also suspect the MMB community could write their own guide to overpowered feats that was actually worthy of the name and let non casters get in on the fun.

After about 5 minutes contemplation, here's a stab:
[...]
Is this even overpowered?

Nah, that's not overpowered.  You still have 6 levels of Fighter after all!  Let you ignore feat prerequisites too, then you may be on to something.

Nope [Horrifically Overpowered, Mook]
Prerequisite: None
Benefit: You may, as no action, resolve one spell, spell-like ability or supernatural power as if you were immune to it.  Once you use this feat in response to one individual's action, you may not use it again in response to them that encounter.

[Mook] Feats cannot be taken by anyone with the ability to cast spells.  If you take a [Mook] Feat and later take a level in a class that grants spell casting you lose the benefits of the feat, you stupid mook.

Interestingly, Super Genius Games have actually written feats which work that way.

Avoid the Arcane
Mind Over Magic
Tougher than Thaumaturgy

Also of note:
Acrobatic Dodge
Knife Trick
Shield Check
Weapon Trickery
Web of Steel




StreamOfTheSky


So, yeah, basically all the caster feats or feats more useful to them than mundanes are overpowered, and the mundane ones all suck.  Shocking.

The hex feat is strictly better than Accursed Hex, which "only" gives you one re-try, only works if they save (sometimes, just being able to re-slumber someone that gets woken up before he dies is handy), and *must* be attempted the very next round or be forfeited.  Since Accursed Hex is already a very strong / overpowered feat, I think one that is plainly better is thus overpowered, even if the differences aren't that wide.

No AoOs is hardly even close to the benefits that making spells Su brings.  No components, can cast in grapples just fine, no SR, no concentration...  Crazy broken.


Logged
Funny post I want easy access to




StreamOfTheSky


+1

Libertad seems to have gone missing.

In unrelated news, there are reports of a series of bludgeoning attacks across the tri-state area by a crazed man with a cartoonishly over-sized plastic club, whom multiple sources have claimed was screaming “if I was just using Power Attack with a normal sized club, this would be FAR more dangerous!”  Thus far, the victims have only been lightly wounded by these heinous attacks.  The police are asking for anyone with information on this criminal to contact them.

*Shrug*  Well, where ever he has gone off to, this trial must proceed, so I suppose I will fill in for him.

Penetrating Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
You can focus on an attack, making it more difficult for foes to ignore.
Benefit: Four times per day, as a swift action, when you make a weapon attack, unarmed attack, or natural weapon attack, you may declare it to be a penetrating attack.  A penetrating attack ignores 10 points of hardness or DR on its target (even DR with no type).

The Verdict: “Penetrating Attack”?  You need a feat for that?  I guess this is where the “horrifically” part comes into play.

….Oh!  The feat's not that at all, it's just a limited use no pre-req Greater Penetrating Strike!  That's better, I guess....  Not overpowered.

Ready For Anything
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can be ready for any possible event.
Prerequisites: Alertness, Improved Initiative
Benefit: When you take the ready action, you do not need to specify in advance what event you are readying for, or what action you will take when that event occurs. Once you take a ready action, you simply have a partial action you may use to pre-empt any one thing you can perceive that occurs.

The Verdict: Probably not overpowered.  Casters with familiars will have the feats for this anyway, and it could be occasionally useful for them.

Shish-Kebab
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
You can ram a spear through one foe, lifting him off the ground, and still stab it into another target.
Prerequisites: Str 19, Dex 13,
Benefit: Once per round, as a swift action, you may make a grapple check against a foe you have hit with a piercing reach weapon that has a solid haft (not a flexible reach weapon). This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If successful, you ram several feet of your weapon through the foe and take a free 5-foot step to move into the foe’s space.

You are not considered grappled, and you cannot pin the foe.

Whenever you successfully attack another target, the impaled target takes damage equal to your weapon’s base damage dice (not including any ability score modifiers, magic properties, feats, or maneuvers). As long as you make at least one attack per round with the weapon, the impaled foe cannot free itself
from this grapple until you are disarmed or forced to drop your weapon. If you do not make an attack, the creature may attempt to free itself by making a grapple check as a full-round action (crawling along the haft and dropping off the end). You may have impaled at one time, a single creature of your size category, or two creatures one size smaller, or up to four creatures two or more sizes smaller.

The Verdict: You must attack with a reach weapon, but as part of the feat you 5 ft step into the foe's space.  The space you are 10 ft away from because you just attacked with a freaking reach weapon!  Lolwut?  Has a size restriction for maintaining the impale, but none to initiate it.  Not overpowered, poorly worded, but damn cool.

Splash Spell
[Horrifically Overpowered, Metamagic]
Your single-target spell splashes onto a second, adjacent target.
Prerequisites: Int, Wis, or Cha 13, Magical Aptitude.
Benefit: When a splash spell targets only a single creature, and either hits that creature (if an attack roll is required)- or the creature fails its save (if a save is allowed), the spell can also target a creature adjacent to the first target that is an appropriate target of the spell and within the spell’s range. The second target is affected as if it was the target of the spell. Splash Spell has no effect on spells that affect more than one target, or do not either require an attack roll or allow a saving throw.  A splash spell takes up a spell slot 0 levels higher than the spell’s normal level.

The Verdict: Tough call, but I'm going to lean towards overpowered.  A no-cost variant of twin spell or split ray that only works on foes lined up like stupid British riflemen.  And has a feat tax.




Halinn

Mega-Magic Spell
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You know a few spells you have made horrifically overpowered.
Prerequisites: Two or more metamagic feats.
Benefit: Select one spell you can cast. Its level may not be higher than half the highest level spell you can cast. Select one or more metamagic feats you know. The total level adjustments of these metamagic feats cannot exceed the level of the spell you have selected.  Whenever you cast the selected spell, you may choose to apply the selected metamagic feats without changing the spell’s level or casting time. You cannot also add other metamagic feats when you do this.

For example, Davor Runetusk is a 16th level half-orc wizard who knows fireball and has the Enlarge Spell and Maximize Spell feats. He takes Mega-Magic, and selects those two metamagic feats (with a total level adjustment of +4, half the level of the highest level spell he can cast – 8th), and fireball, allowing him to cast an Enlarged Maximized fireball as a 3rd level spell. If he decided to add another metamagic feat to the spell, he could not also apply the two feats he selected with Megamagic Spell for free (though he could add them with the normal increase in the fireball’s effective spell level).
Special: If your GM is crazy enough to let you take this feat once, there’s no reason not to let you take it multiple times. Its effects do not stack, though. Get real. Each time it is selected, it applies metamagic feats to a different spell known.

The verdict: Overpowered.  Persistent Spell as we know it does not exist in Pathfinder, but this feat is still open to some horrific abuse.

I agree with the verdict, but I also have to point out how their example doesn't even work (metamagics are based on the level of the selected spell, not potential spells) and at the same time shows that they have no idea what is good for casters (seriously, fireball at level 16?!)

So, yeah, basically all the caster feats or feats more useful to them than mundanes are overpowered, and the mundane ones all suck.  Shocking.

The hex feat is strictly better than Accursed Hex, which "only" gives you one re-try, only works if they save (sometimes, just being able to re-slumber someone that gets woken up before he dies is handy), and *must* be attempted the very next round or be forfeited.  Since Accursed Hex is already a very strong / overpowered feat, I think one that is plainly better is thus overpowered, even if the differences aren't that wide.

No AoOs is hardly even close to the benefits that making spells Su brings.  No components, can cast in grapples just fine, no SR, no concentration...  Crazy broken.

The hex feat has a fairly limited total uses per day. If you want to slumber a few enemies every combat for a full 4-combat day, you'd run out of uses, where accursed hex can't run out. I agree that it's better than accursed hex, but not strictly better, and not horrifically overpowered

[CritMagnon]

Libertad


Evening, folks.  Don't mind the blood on my clothes, it's mostly my own.  I just needed to work out my frustrations, and am in good mind to continue the review as long as nobody mentions *that feat.*

Strong-Arm
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can grab a foe by the throat, and lift him off his feet.
Prerequisites: Str 19, Dex 13, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: When you are grappling a single foe your size category or smaller, you may do so with only one arm and without gaining the grappled condition yourself. You cannot pin a foe you are grappling in this manner.

The verdict: Hooray, you can... have one arm free while grappling, and ignore the grappled condition.  Wrong again Stephens, this ain't overpowered!

Throat-Crusher
[Horrifically Overpowered]
When you have a foe by the throat, there’s not much they can do.
Prerequisites: Str 21, Dex 13, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: You know how we said back in Strong-Arm you couldn’t pin a foe you were grappling using that feat? Well, now you can. Plus, foes you grapple cannot speak or complete somatic spell components until they escape the grapple.

The verdict: Hey, you can pin now with one arm free!  And can shut down enemy spellcasters!  Nice, but not overpowered.

Ultimate Combat
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
You are capable of delivering attacks against which there is no defense.
Prerequisite: Any Horrifically Overpowered feat, 4 or more levels in a class with a base attack bonus equal to its level.
Benefit: When you make an attack that misses, you may invoke Ultimate Combat as a free action. The attack hits. You may invoke Ultimate Combat a number of times per day equal to 1 + your Strength or Dex ability bonus (whichever is higher).

The verdict: Well, it would be overpowered at low levels, but there are things like True Strike which can boost up your attack bonus.  Still not as good as Save or Suck spells, and it's limited uses per day.  Not overpowered.

Ultimate Defense
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
You are capable of avoiding attacks that have you dead-to-rights.
Prerequisites: Any Horrifically Overpowered feat, class feature that adds a bonus to your armor class (such as a monk’s AC bonus or a duelist’s canny defense).
Benefit: When you are hit by an attack roll, you may invoke Ultimate Defense as a free action. The attack misses you. You may invoke Ultimate Combat a number of times per day equal to 1 + your Int, Wis, or Cha ability bonus (whichever is highest).

The verdict: Just like Denied from the first book, it's overpowered.  Far better than any miss chance/concealment stuff.

Ultimate Magic
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can cast spells that bypass all a foe’s defenses.
Prerequisite: Any Horrifically Overpowered feat, 4 or more levels in a class with a spell list that includes 9th level spells.
Benefit: When you cast a spell that has a duration greater than 1 round and a saving throw that negates it, and it is negated by a saving throw, spell resistance, or use of a feat, you may invoke Ultimate Magic as a free action. The target it is still affected by the spell, but only for 1 round. You may invoke Ultimate Magic a number of times per day equal to 1 + your Int, Wis, or Cha bonus (whichever is highest). This has no effect on creatures that ignore the effect of your spell for other reasons (such as not qualifying as a target or having enough energy resistance to avoid damage).

The verdict: Save or Lose spells are even better!  Overpowered.

Vorpal Critical
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
Your critical hits behead things. Even jabberwocks.
Prerequisites: Critical Focus, base attack bonus +19.
Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a slashing weapon, the weapon severs your opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. Alternatively, if you wish, you may slice off some other extremity when you score a critical hit.

Additionally, all your attacks count as vorpal damage for purposes of bypassing DR (normally only relevant if you are facing a jabberwock, but if your GM lets you take this feat, obviously all bets are off).

The verdict: Vorpal property on all slashing weapons at 19th level ain't too impressive, folks.  Not overpowered.

It's over, it's finally over.  Now I can rest...

Oh wait, there's one more thing.

The designers noticed that several feats could not work when used against each other.  Like using Ultimate Defense to make an attack miss, only for the opponent to use Ultimate Combat.  Well, to resolve this, both parties roll a 1d20 + their level.  Whoever scores higher wins, and all witnesses who do not have a Horrifically Overpowered feat are shaken for 1 round due to the sheer awesomeness on display.  And failed attempts with a limited-use feat do not count against the total, so you've got another shot at things.

I hope you all enjoyed this thread as much as it made me suffer.  But who knows, I may get around to reviewing other Feat books from Super Genius Games, like the Guide to Feats of Battle.

This product presents numerous feats balanced for any character, but designed to make a few popular concepts easier to play from an early level. This product also introduces a few feats that draw on a character's resistance to magic and supernatural forces, focusing their efforts in ways that grant them benefits but require them to have no caster level. These "feats of battle" give characters who eschew magic altogether a reward for doing so without resorting to creating a whole new kind of magic under a new name.

Uh-oh, subtle dig at Tome of Battle...

Finally, among many players there is a perceived  imbalance between high-level spellcasting characters,  and high-level characters that lack any magic talent.  While this point is debatable (and is debated hotly among many fans), it’s safe to say that for some play  styles a lack of magic becomes a drawback at mid and high levels. Thus this product  introduces a few feats  that draw on a character’s  resistance to magic and  supernatural forces, focusing  their efforts in ways that  grant them benefits but  require them to have no  caster level. These “feats of  battle” give characters who  eschew magic altogether a  reward for doing so without  resorting to creating a whole  new kind of magic under a  new name.

Oh, so close but no cigar!  Stephens realizes that this is a big problem in 3.X games, but he's weighing his words carefully to avoid upsetting the zealots who insist that "Pathfinder fixed everything!"

Tempting as it is, I don't know if I have it in me to buy this new Guide anytime soon.  Someone else will have to pick up the torch if I don't.

Special Thanks: Streamofthesky for challening mistaken rulings and helping me through my darkest moments;

Sor0_Lost, Prime32, Kaelik, Concerned Ninja Citizen, ImperatorK, Bozwevial, and Halinn for giving their insight on the workings of these feats and comparing them to existing [non-overpowered] ones;

everybody who took the time to read this thread.






Kethrian


Wow.  Here I was thinking some of the meta-attack feats might be good to steal ideas from for my Fighter rewrite, but most of them are already similar to abilities on the class list....

One interesting, and probably unintended, downside to Supernatural Spell Monster is that if your spells are now treated as SUs, then they can no longer be modified by metamagic feats.  Doesn't really reduce the OP-ness of the feat that much, but still worth noting.




Libertad


Wow, the 2nd Guide has an even worse track record than the 1st!  24 feats not overpowered, and only 6 overpowered!

Owen KC Stephens, we the court find you guilty of selling underpowered, average, and slightly good feats as Horrifically Overpowered to the gaming public.  Your penalty: you must give up your title of "Wide-Girthed God of d20 Rules Crunch," which shall be taken by a worthier candidate if one shows up.




Concerned Ninja Citizen


There has got to be some kind of mysterious biological imperative that we are unfamiliar with that causes people to think Monkey Grip is broken. Seriously, people have been complaining about how overpowered that feat is (and more intelligent people have been telling them to stfu, go read power attack, and learn to math) since the damn thing was first printed.

Maybe it's the innate draw of the ability to wave an EVEN BIGGER phallic symbol than everyone else gets to wave...




StreamOfTheSky


I think quantity alone isn't fair to judge him on.

While only a few feats were overpowered (the caster ones), many of those were LUDICROUSLY overpowered.  Magnitude must count for something, right?




Keldar


It still boggles my mind that game designers can't see how broad the disparity of ability between casters and [Mooks] is and continue to widen it.  Even when trying to do comedy!   *bg_uhhuh.gif*




Libertad

It still boggles my mind that game designers can't see how broad the disparity of ability between casters and [Mooks] is and continue to widen it.  Even when trying to do comedy!   *bg_uhhuh.gif*

I think that the comedy might be geared towards a certain kind of Pathfinder player: the fanbase has a lot of people who believe that the game fixed most of 3.X's problems regarding class balance, and fiercely argued against 19th level Fighters getting DR 10/- because it's "overpowered."

It's not meant to be our kind of humor.




Concerned Ninja Citizen

I think quantity alone isn't fair to judge him on.

While only a few feats were overpowered (the caster ones), many of those were LUDICROUSLY overpowered.  Magnitude must count for something, right?

I'd say that the fact that the caster feats (and pretty much only the caster feats) were stupidly overpowered should count against him rather than for him at least when it comes to demonstrating that he has the first clue how the fuck balance works in 3.p D&D. Giving casters overpowered options is redundant. Casters already have oodles of overpowered options.






ImperatorK

One interesting, and probably unintended, downside to Supernatural Spell Monster is that if your spells are now treated as SUs, then they can no longer be modified by metamagic feats.  Doesn't really reduce the OP-ness of the feat that much, but still worth noting.

Good thing there's Metanatural to mitigate that.




Agita


+1

Your penalty: you must give up your title of "Wide-Girthed God of d20 Rules Crunch," which shall be taken by a worthier candidate if one shows up.

Dibs.

(I'm surprised nobody else has done this.)

EDIT: On second thought, the title is kind of inaccurate for my actual stature. I shall change it to fit better (and to avoid anyone accidentally thinking I may be Stephens, just in case).




Libertad

One interesting, and probably unintended, downside to Supernatural Spell Monster is that if your spells are now treated as SUs, then they can no longer be modified by metamagic feats.  Doesn't really reduce the OP-ness of the feat that much, but still worth noting.

Good thing there's Metanatural to mitigate that.

A rare case of synergy between feats.

Your penalty: you must give up your title of "Wide-Girthed God of d20 Rules Crunch," which shall be taken by a worthier candidate if one shows up.

Dibs.

(I'm surprised nobody else has done this.)

EDIT: On second thought, the title is kind of inaccurate for my actual stature. I shall change it to fit better (and to avoid anyone accidentally thinking I may be Stephens, just in case).

All hail Agita, our new number-crunching overlord!




Halinn

There has got to be some kind of mysterious biological imperative that we are unfamiliar with that causes people to think Monkey Grip is broken. Seriously, people have been complaining about how overpowered that feat is (and more intelligent people have been telling them to stfu, go read power attack, and learn to math) since the damn thing was first printed.

Maybe it's the innate draw of the ability to wave an EVEN BIGGER phallic symbol than everyone else gets to wave...

It's the "anime" factor. The same thing that makes feats that improve jumping ability overpowered.
At least with this version of monkey grip, we can say that it is actually better than weapon specialization, because there's no penalty if you just go with one size increase (i.e. +3.5 average damage increase to that greatsword. Still not close to overpowered)

I think quantity alone isn't fair to judge him on.

While only a few feats were overpowered (the caster ones), many of those were LUDICROUSLY overpowered.  Magnitude must count for something, right?

You might even say that some of them were horrifically overpowered? The product as advertised should have had everything be at least good feats. When they include actually bad feats in a product claiming to contain naught but overpowered ones, you just can't pull the average up enough.




Demelain

I think quantity alone isn't fair to judge him on.

While only a few feats were overpowered (the caster ones), many of those were LUDICROUSLY overpowered.  Magnitude must count for something, right?

You might even say that some of them were horrifically overpowered? The product as advertised should have had everything be at least good feats. When they include actually bad feats in a product claiming to contain naught but overpowered ones, you just can't pull the average up enough.

Might not be horrifyingly strong, but most of the martial ones I'm going to make available to my players in the next 3.5 game I run (with minor edits for PF->3.5, where needed).




Libertad

Might not be horrifyingly strong, but most of the martial ones I'm going to make available to my players in the next 3.5 game I run (with minor edits for PF->3.5, where needed).

Looks like some good came out of this thread after all!

It's the "anime" factor. The same thing that makes feats that improve jumping ability overpowered.

Anybody who plays 3rd Edition full casters as per RAW has no right to complain about "anime" things being overpowered.  End of discussion.




Prime32

Anybody who plays 3rd Edition full casters as per RAW has no right to complain about "anime" things being overpowered.  End of discussion.

Yep. In anime a guy who can stop time, control minds or generate illusions will shape the direction of the entire story, while being undefeatable by even the mightiest warrior with the spikiest hair, unless they turn off their powers to gloat or the warrior is immune to them for plot reasons. Wizards can do all of those things at the same time; totally different. *bg_pout.gif*

(I feel the need to link this thread *wayback machine'd*)





awaken_D_M_golem


in the neighborhood of Master Of Magic Items ...
Yak Folk have an auto-use of Magic Staves ability. 
Better worded ; I used to have a decent link.




kevin video


I'm afraid you're still missing a few feats, friend. They're in the Tarnished Souk books. Here's one of them:

Class-Specific Archetype
(Horrifically Overpowered)
You gain a class-specific archetype.
Benefit: Select a class you have levels in, including effective levels gained from the Horrifically Overpowered feat Gestalt. You gain a single archetype, adding the abilities granted by the archetype to those you already have. You don’t replace any existing class abilities when you gain the archetype. Your effective level for the purpose of archetype abilities is equal to your effective class level.
Special: This feat can be gained more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you gain this feat you gain another archetype. Archetype abilities gained through this feat never reduce, replace, or modify previously existing class features unless it is advantageous to the character gaining this archetype. If you already have an archetype for a class you possess, you can gain the regular class abilities instead of another archetype.

Libertad


There are 25 of those books on Drive-Thru RPG ($2-3 each).  I don't think I'll get them just to review more feats.  Sorry.




kevin video

There are 25 of those books on Drive-Thru RPG ($2-3 each).  I don't think I'll get them just to review more feats.  Sorry.

That's fine. I don't expect you to. Instead, I can put them up here and you can review them.




Libertad

That's fine. I don't expect you to. Instead, I can put them up here and you can review them.

Cool.  As long as they're Open Content, go for it!

[CritMagnon]

AuthorTopic: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens  (Read 68941 times)


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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #60: April 02, 2013, 09:01:49 PM »




Quote from: Libertad on April 02, 2013, 08:41:26 PM

Quote from: kevin video on April 02, 2013, 08:07:25 PM

That's fine. I don't expect you to. Instead, I can put them up here and you can review them.


Cool.  As long as they're Open Content, go for it!

Says Open Game License, so I think I'm good.

I'll let you start with the one above, and I'll send you more via PM.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #61: April 02, 2013, 09:47:35 PM »




Thanks for the feats!

Quote

Generic Archetype
(Horrifically Overpowered)
You gain a generic archetype.
Benefit: You gain a single generic archetype. Your effective level for this archetype is equal to your character level.
Special: You may gain this feat more than once. Each time after the first, your effective character level cumulatively decreases by 4, to a minimum of 0. Therefore, your effective character level is equal to your character level the first time you take this feat, character level -4 the second time, character level -8 the third time, etc.


Since archetypes replace existing features, I don't really see this as overpowered in and of itself.  Can vary based upon the replacements and their synergy.

Edit: The generic archetypes are below, so the feat's power depends upon the archetype selected.

Quote

Physical Exemplar (Generic Archetype)
Some people are just more fit than their kindred and allies. For whatever reason, some physical exemplars are able to perform feats of muscle, speed, and endurance at the outer edge of mortal capability. Some physical exemplars focus all their development on a single aspect of their physique while others work to be better in all areas. Some families produce natural physical exemplars every few generations, but most are products of relentless regimens of self-improvement. This archetype package is most commonly taken by barbarians and monks, though certainly any fighting character can benefit from it.
Physical exemplars are almost always local legends—the barmaid renowned for drinking even hardened veterans under the table, the sprinter who is rumored to race gods through the fields near her home, and the strong-woman who can lift a bench with four men sitting on it.
Though they often are born to humble families, physical exemplars are almost always drawn at a young age into lives of adventure and danger.
Many feel they must use their great potential to improve the lives of those less fortunate, while others feel their tangible superiority is a sign that they should rule over lesser beings. Even a physical exemplar who tries to live a normal, unremarkable life soon finds travelers spread tales about her and that competitors consistently arrive to put her legendary natural gifts to the test.
Prowess (Ex): At 1st level, the physical exemplar gains a +1 bonus to Fortitude and Reflex saves. Additionally, the physical exemplar gains 1 extra hit point at every level.
Exercise: At 2nd level, the physical exemplar increases her Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution by +1. The physical exemplar gains an additional ability score increase (which in all cases must be to Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution) at 6th level and every 4 levels thereafter. This is in addition to (but otherwise treated exactly the same as) the ability score increases all characters receive at 4th level and every 4 levels after that.
Practice: At 5th level, the physical exemplar gains a bonus feat. This feat cannot grant the physical exemplar any benefit to spellcasting, spell-like or supernatural abilities, or Int-, Wis-, or Cha-based skills or ability checks. The physical exemplar gains an additional bonus feat of this type at 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.


Overpowered.  The potential for jacking up a physical ability score by 10 over 20 levels has potential to be abusive, if used to boost up Initiative.  But this pales in comparison to gaining bonus feats: you're effectively spending a feat to get 4 more feats.

Quote

Spellblaze (Generic Archetype)
Many creatures have innate magic powers. Even among civilized humanoids, the self-discipline developed by monks and inborn abilities of sorcerers are examples of hereditary natural magic powers. But there also much cruder, simpler magic powers in some family lines. The Spellblaze archetype package represents one of the simplest magic abilities a character may have—the power to blast things.
The Spellblaze archetype can represent an alternate tradition of magic, as carefully trained and studied as the powers of clerics and wizards. Some lands may create schools able to teach young spellcasters how to focus their power into a simple, effective weapon that augments their spell repertoire. In such lands a character with this archetype package might be known as a mage lance, fusilladeer, or bolter.
Alternatively, the Spellblaze archetype package might be more common among remote, less civilized groups. Perhaps some families of the clans in the blasted deserts are just born able to summon the power of the Spellblaze, regardless of their training. Or it might be common among the followers of a god of war and destruction—a boon he passes out to battle sorcerer and berserker alike. In these lands the Spellblaze often mark themselves with bright paints and tattoos, so friend and foe alike know what power is theirs to command.
Spellblaze (Su): As a standard action you can call forth a bolt of pure arcane force energy. You can target any single creature with a range of 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 class levels with this bolt of force as a ranged touch attack. If you hit the foe, the bolt does 1d8 points of damage + 1 point for every two class levels you possess. This damage functions as damage from an evocation [force] spell. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 5 + half your class level. At 5th level, the damage increases to 2d8 points of damage + 1 point for every two class levels you possess. At 10th level, it increases to 3d8 points of damage + 1 point for every two class levels you possess. At 15th level, it increases to 4d8 points of damage + 1 point for every two class levels you possess. At 20th level, it increases to 5d8 points of damage + 1 point for every two class levels you possess.


This is rare, a spellcasting-related option which is not overpowered.  A short range damaging bolt isn't going to wreck the game.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 01:01:49 PM by Libertad »
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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #62: April 02, 2013, 10:00:18 PM »




What does "(Generic Archetype)" mean? Do these feats have GA as a prerequisite?

Physical Exemplar very much depends on the campaign. If you're starting at lv5+ it's overpowered just math wise: spend a feat to gain a feat (at a later level where you qualify for more things) and some other stuff.

On the other hand, if you start at 1 and the campaign ends at 4 it's not so awesome, esp if you didn't/ weren't able to exploit the +1 to ability scores aspect of it.

If you take it at 1 in a campaign that runs to 20... it's probably overpowered but more moderately so.

Overall it actually seems like a decent way to boost non casters at high levels, where they have more issues keeping up with casting classes.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #63: April 02, 2013, 10:03:05 PM »




Should be in here somewhere.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #64: April 02, 2013, 10:06:42 PM »




I wasn't talking about the term "generic archetype" as used in the text of the feat with that name.

I was wondering why the other two feats (exemplar and spellblaze) are labeled with the feat type "(Generic Archetype)".

Come to think of it, they aren't labelled "(Horrifically Overpowered)". Does that mean they aren't subject to the limitations of that feat type?



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #65: April 02, 2013, 10:13:26 PM »




Quote from: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 02, 2013, 10:06:42 PM

I wasn't talking about the term "generic archetype" as used in the text of the feat with that name.

I was wondering why the other two feats (exemplar and spellblaze) are labeled with the feat type "(Generic Archetype)".

Come to think of it, they aren't labelled "(Horrifically Overpowered)". Does that mean they aren't subject to the limitations of that feat type?



I believe they're labeled (Generic Archetype) because you can choose them with the Generic Archetype feat.  Pathfinder first party books don't have anything called Generic Archetypes that I've seen.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #66: April 02, 2013, 10:14:07 PM »




Don't forget this one too.

Quote

Class-Specific Archetype
(Horrifically Overpowered)
You gain a class-specific archetype.
Benefit: Select a class you have levels in, including effective levels gained from the Horrifically Overpowered feat Gestalt. You gain a single archetype, adding the abilities granted by the archetype to those you already have. You don’t replace any existing class abilities when you gain the archetype. Your effective level for the purpose of archetype abilities is equal to your effective class level.
Special: This feat can be gained more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you gain this feat you gain another archetype. Archetype abilities gained through this feat never reduce, replace, or modify previously existing class features unless it is advantageous to the character gaining this archetype. If you already have an archetype for a class you possess, you can gain the regular class abilities instead of another archetype.

Personally, I find it overpowered, but then it'll depend on what class archetype you take. There are some where all they do is replace bravery for a fighter, or maybe the ranger get trapfinding. Those aren't overpowered. However, a wizard or cleric's could get extremely overpowered.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #67: April 02, 2013, 10:21:15 PM »




Ah. I (and I think Libertad as well) was confusing the Class Specific Archetype feat and the Generic Archetype feat.

So the generic archetype feat is a feat that lets you access sets of abilities that are worded like feats but are actually "archetypes" except they're not "class specific archetypes" (AKA "the only archetypes that previously existed") but "generic archetypes" (AKA "these random things we just made up that are not actually related to archetypes in any way")?

Still not sure if that's horrifically overpowered but it's definitely horrifically confusing.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #68: April 02, 2013, 10:23:43 PM »




Quote from: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 02, 2013, 10:21:15 PM

Ah. I (and I think Libertad as well) was confusing the Class Specific Archetype feat and the Generic Archetype feat.

So the generic archetype feat is a feat that lets you access sets of abilities that are worded like feats but are actually "archetypes" except they're not "class specific archetypes" (AKA "the only archetypes that previously existed") but "generic archetypes" (AKA "these random things we just made up that are not actually related to archetypes in any way")?

Still not sure if that's horrifically overpowered but it's definitely horrifically confusing.



That's what it looks like.

Yeah, I don't really know why they used the terminology they did...



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #69: April 02, 2013, 11:07:05 PM »




Well, how it goes is the Generic Archetype is just those two that they listed under the feat. They're there to replace certain aspects of the class abilities. For example: Fighter - The fighter has one archetype package: Battle Master. The Battle Master archetype grants a fighter the bonus feats gained at 1st, 6th, 12th, and 18th levels, bravery, and weapon training. Additionally, without this archetype package the character cannot take feats whose prerequisites include levels in the fighter class (such as Weapon Specialization).

So for Generic Archetype, you could take Spellblaze or Physical Exemplar, and replace it at those levels for the different abilities. However, the feat lets you keep your fighter as is, plus gain the abilities of the Spellblaze or the Physical Exemplar.

The Class-Specific Archetype is as per the standard class archetypes. So as you level up, you'd gain both abilities at the same time. So you could have a standard Fighter and a Two-Handed Weapon Fighter at the same time, gaining the abilities of both at the appropriate levels.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #70: April 03, 2013, 03:07:15 AM »




I don't know about Spellblaze, but Physical Exemplar is also a Barbarian archetype.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #71: April 03, 2013, 10:51:03 AM »




Quote from: Libertad on April 02, 2013, 09:47:35 PM

Thanks for the feats!

Quote

Generic Archetype
...



Since archetypes replace existing features, I don't really see this as overpowered in and of itself.  Can vary based upon the replacements and their synergy.



You misunderstand. This feat doesn't give you a class archetype. It gives you a generic archetype, those things you declared as being OP just below. They aren't feats in and of themselves, you just seem to get them through taking this feat (Generic Archetype).

Quote

Quote

Physical Exemplar (Generic Archetype)
...



Overpowered.  The potential for jacking up a physical ability score by 10 over 20 levels has potential to be abusive, if used to boost up Initiative.  Same for open-ended bonus feats.



I'd call it OP for a slightly different reason. You're spending a feat (on Generic Archetype) to get up to 4 more feats. Other than the fact that it counts against your 1/3 level Horrendously OP feat limit, that's just a no brainer, even before the other benefits. That said, I'm not quite as impressed with just +5 to a stat (not +10; you're getting the normal stat boosts from level regardless of whether or not you have this feat). Stat boosts are nice, but they're not the be all and end all of things.

Quote

Quote

Spellblaze (Generic Archetype)
...



This is rare, a spellcasting-related feat which is not overpowered.  A short range damaging bolt isn't going to wreck the game.



Wow, that's barely any more damage than Magic Missile!



« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 10:52:40 AM by Garryl »
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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #72: April 03, 2013, 12:05:53 PM »




Quote from: Garryl on April 03, 2013, 10:51:03 AM

Quote

Spellblaze (Generic Archetype)
...

Quote

This is rare, a spellcasting-related feat which is not overpowered.  A short range damaging bolt isn't going to wreck the game.


Wow, that's barely any more damage than Magic Missile!

I've got one even better for you. It's a Spellblaze specific feat.

Quote

Extend Spellblaze
Your spellblaze range increases.
Prerequisite: Spellblaze class feature.
Benefit: The range at which your spellblaze ability can be used increases. At the cost of two uses, your spellblaze as a range of 100 ft. + 10 ft./level. At the cost of four uses, your spellblaze has a range of 400 ft. + 40 ft./level.

A feat that allows you to extend the distance on your spellblaze ability THAT COSTS YOU USES. That's retarded. Just let them do that for free at various intervals. I'd give my PCs this feat for free. It'll kick in at levels 10 and 20. They won't have to use 2 and 4 uses of the ability to make it go farther.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #73: April 03, 2013, 01:02:46 PM »




I spotted where i got confused about archetypes.  I feel like such a putz now...



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #74: April 03, 2013, 05:03:14 PM »




Only tangentially related, but one of the hottest-selling Pathfinder products on Drive-Thru RPGs is "The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter."

Quote

The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter rewrites the classic fighter class to use talents instead of static class abilities alternating with bonus feats. Rather than require all fighters be brave and balance their efforts between armor and weapon bonuses, each fighter can custom-fit the classes abilities to match a player’s specific concept. This increased flexibility allows the fighter to be the default combat-oriented character without limiting it to just one or two styles of fighting. And like a rogue, a fighter character can pick and choose from a range of similarly-powered abilities appropriate for the fighter’s role without making the class overpowered. The talented fighter still fills the same role in the party, but can customize his combat style and abilities to fill a much broader range of concepts.


Wait, was an overpowered Fighter ever a large concern in 3.X games?  I mean, I've heard about people complaining about the 19th level PF playtest Fighter getting DR 10/-, but that was just one incident.

From what I could briefly see of the preview, this is an alternate class.  Fighters choose a talent every level.  At 10th level they can get 'advanced' talents, and at 20th they can choose 'grand' talents.

The sample talents don't really grab me.  Armored Defense is the only potentially good one, as it can grant DR 12/- when wearing heavy armor (at 10th level, though).  The others are just static bonuses, like a potential +6 on saving throws against 'immobilizing' effects, and ignoring armor check penalties while climbing and swimming.

This could make for an interesting Courtroom Review, because there's plenty of free alternate Fighter classes on the Internet.  Except that this one you've got to pay for.  But it doesn't really seem to promise anything other than "a bunch of talents for different concepts."


« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 05:06:10 PM by Libertad »
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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #75: April 03, 2013, 05:05:24 PM »




Quote from: Libertad on April 03, 2013, 05:03:14 PM

From what I could briefly see of the preview, this is an alternate class.  Fighters choose a talent every level.  At 10th level they can get 'advanced' talents, and at 20th they can choose 'grand' talents.

The sample talents don't really grab me.  Armored Defense is the only potentially good one, as it can grant DR 12/- when wearing heavy armor (at 10th level, though).  The others are just static bonuses, like a potential +6 on saving throws against 'immobilizing' effects, and ignoring armor check penalties while climbing and swimming.

I've got a copy of it. Basically what it is, is it allows you to take various fighter archetype abilities as talents. So basically your fighter is ALL the fighters.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #76: April 03, 2013, 05:06:53 PM »




How many of the talents are really nice, and how many are "bla?"



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #77: April 03, 2013, 05:20:35 PM »




Quote from: Libertad on April 03, 2013, 05:06:53 PM

How many of the talents are really nice, and how many are "bla?"

Depends on the person. If you want to be a two-handed fighter AND a two-weapon fighter, then really nice. Essentially, you literally pick and choose the best abilities of all the archetypes. If you choose poorly, then the character will be poor.
As for when you'd get them, it's about the same as the archetype. If they don't have it until level 17, it'll likely be an Advanced talent.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #78: April 12, 2013, 12:57:28 AM »




Quote from: StreamOfTheSky on March 18, 2013, 08:57:52 PM

Quote

Ready For Anything
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You can be ready for any possible event.
Prerequisites: Alertness, Improved Initiative
Benefit: When you take the ready action, you do not need to specify in advance what event you are readying for, or what action you will take when that event occurs. Once you take a ready action, you simply have a partial action you may use to pre-empt any one thing you can perceive that occurs.


The Verdict: Probably not overpowered.  Casters with familiars will have the feats for this anyway, and it could be occasionally useful for them.


This feat already exists:

Quote

Adventurous Explorer
Type: Ancestor
Source: Dragon #315
You are descended from an adventurous explorer. You are quick to take action and react quickly to changing conditions in combat.
Region: Shou Lung (Ch'ing Tung), Jungle Lands.
Benefit: When you ready an action in combat, you can choose to take that action at any time, not just when the condition you specify occurs. (In effect, this allows you to take a move action and then delay your remaining action.)


Personally, I've never been able to fit Adventurous Explorer onto a character, btw, unless one uses the free ansestor feat rule from OA. Simply too expensive.

Quote from: Libertad on March 18, 2013, 09:33:42 PM

Quote

Ultimate Defense
[Combat, Horrifically Overpowered]
You are capable of avoiding attacks that have you dead-to-rights.
Prerequisites: Any Horrifically Overpowered feat, class feature that adds a bonus to your armor class (such as a monk’s AC bonus or a duelist’s canny defense).
Benefit: When you are hit by an attack roll, you may invoke Ultimate Defense as a free action. The attack misses you. You may invoke Ultimate Combat a number of times per day equal to 1 + your Int, Wis, or Cha ability bonus (whichever is highest).


The verdict: Just like Denied from the first book, it's overpowered.  Far better than any miss chance/concealment stuff.


Incorrect. This is a thing in PF:

Quote

Crane Wing (Combat)
You move with the speed and finesse of an avian hunter, your sweeping blocks and graceful motions allowing you to deflect melee attacks with ease.
Prerequisites: Crane Style, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free and are either fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you.


The PRs are rougher, but there are ways around them (Unarmed Fighter Archetype, Martial Monk from Dragon if the table allows it). Either way, since attack denial is already in as a feat, if PF doesn't break in half in favor of melee characters right now, it won't with Ultimate Defense added.

The author of the book under review is displaying less system knowledge and design acumen than random passersby on this site. This isn't written to insult, though no care is given to prevent it, but to note that there really isn't an angle at which the book succeeds and its failure is purely due to a culture that insists that d20 is something it is not for the sake of personal pride.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #79: April 12, 2013, 01:24:48 AM »




Adventurous Explorer seems to only allow you to choose the time of your readied action freely. You still have to specify the action. At least, that's what the text of the feat, as posted, says. The parenthetical text then contradicts this but that's just an (incorrect) explanation of the text, not the text itself.

In any case, neither AE nor Ready For Anything is overpowered.

Crane Wing is also more limited than ultimate defense. It applies to melee attacks only and once per turn only. Ultimate Defense has a per day limit but no limit on uses per turn. It can also be used in response to an ambush or a trap where crane wing only works once you've had a chance to act (since it requires you to be fighting defensively.)

Combined with Crane Wing's prereqs I would say that it is not overpowered while ultimate defense is somewhat. Only somewhat, certainly not "horrifically."



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #80: April 12, 2013, 01:38:29 PM »




The parenthetical is part of the main text; it cannot be dismissed as an interpretation of the text because it is the text. It merely contradicts your interpretation of the text. Indeed, it cannot even contradict itself because if your interpretation of the non-parenthetical were true, the most the parenthetical could do would be to expand upon the scope of the preceding sentence.

Crane Wing isn't more limited than Ultimate Defense, it merely has differing utility. Melee ambushes don't mean dick for many tables, while slugfests and attrition mean a great deal for some tables, so the utility becomes utterly situational. Crane Wing is useable any number of times a day and, as such, can completely shut down a creature whose shtick is One Big Hit (e.g., chargers). Stopping melee-damage ambushes is a joke in my personal experience because any d20 ambush that is truly scary involves magic, and lots of it. While it could be uber in some, Ultimate Defense is pathetic in a significant number of campaigns. Indeed, I'd disallow Crane Wing before I disallowed Ultimate Defense if I was to ban either (because Crane Wing can be used to shut down too many low-powered-but-interesting strategies), but since I have some degree of sense, that Hobson's Choice will never present itself.

Frankly, d20 is a magician's game, and that was the point of my earlier post. Coming up with lots of game components that treat melee combat as the major method of conflict resolution isn't just wrong or delusional, at this point it's aggressive, arrogant lying. It's insulting in and of itself. Damn near every game of d20 I've seen has its fun undermined, and occasionally smashed, because of this contradiction, and yet splat after splat continues this self-indulgent inanity. Now it's so bad that we're at the point where even Pathfinder's melee feats can be stealth re-written and slapped with the "overpowered" tag. . . and designers expect to be paid for the results.

Edit: Added a grammatical article.


« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 08:18:44 PM by Ananse »
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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #81: April 12, 2013, 01:47:51 PM »




From the above post: so... if an enemy's schtick is to get in one huge, game-ending hit, your ruling would be to disallow the feat (taken by a martial character, most likely) that ensures they survive this thing, because magic is far more powerful?



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #82: April 12, 2013, 08:32:24 PM »




The requirements for using Crane Wing are way, way higher. One hand free (no two-handed weapons or shields), have to fight defensively (more difficult to hit, made worse by the fact that you're likely a monk), can't be flat-footed (which you are in the first round of combat before you act), and it's melee only (won't defend against, say, Enervation or an archer).



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #83: April 12, 2013, 11:28:47 PM »




Quote from: Raineh Daze on April 12, 2013, 01:47:51 PM

From the above post: so... if an enemy's schtick is to get in one huge, game-ending hit, your ruling would be to disallow the feat (taken by a martial character, most likely) that ensures they survive this thing, because magic is far more powerful?



No. You misread.

I would not disallow either feat, but if I were forced -- forced -- to say that one of them could be disruptive, it would be Crane Wing because it actually does something significant in games I've seen and played. That said, I want noncasters to have significant feats so I'd never disallow it. The point was that Crane Wing would have a more potent effect on combats in my experience than Stephens' nigh-worthless feat. Even with Crane Wing's requirements, I'd prefer it.

Hell, if I'm DMing, I'd happily relax some of Crane Wing's requirements upon request -- having hands free is an obnoxious one I would ignore immediately (if your martial character isn't awesome enough to parry things with his toes, we're in the wrong game).

_____

Another thing Stephens' book brings to mind is the complete lack of context d20's designers seem to operate with. The strength of a given non-caster game concept is often entirely dependent upon what book it's in and when it's printed more than anything else. At the beginning of a production cycle, non-casters get shit. At the end, developers throw sudden power boosts out without a second thought. This is bizarre in gaming. I can't think of another game line that has this exact same problem. I think it's because most of d20's many well-published designers literally do not know what their concept of the non-caster really is and, frankly, don't want to know. As such, what a dude with a sword can do changes depending on the weather, the splat, and whether it's Thursday.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #84: April 13, 2013, 01:44:09 AM »




You go on about magic being uber (which is not actually disputed on this thread) and then claim Crane Wing is the more powerful feat when Ultimate Defense can actually do something about magic (if it uses attack rolls) and Crane Wing cannot.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #85: April 13, 2013, 10:33:24 AM »




Quote from: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 13, 2013, 01:44:09 AM

You go on about magic being uber (which is not actually disputed on this thread)


Then why are you stating this? The point was that since magic is a more significant issue, two feats that don't have much to do with magic aren't that significant. So what are you going on about?

Quote from: Concerned Ninja Citizen on April 13, 2013, 01:44:09 AM

and then claim Crane Wing is the more powerful feat when Ultimate Defense can actually do something about magic (if it uses attack rolls) and Crane Wing cannot.


And Crane Wing is better against magical melee summons than Ultimate Defense. With respect, it seems like you're being contrary for its own sake, without a substantive point -- especially since the general consensus is that attack-roll magic, being usually hp-targeting, is less dangerous than SoD, magic's forte. (I mean, I could also claim that Crane Wing is more useful against a melee-monster Druid or Cleric, but we both know that that, like your post, is completely irrelevant to the original point I made, right?)



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #86: April 13, 2013, 10:38:34 AM »




Touch attacks (can't remember if Pathfinder has them) are still attack rolls. You can cause the same thing as Crane Wing to miss you, with no preparation needed. The sole difference is the limitation based upon your highest mental stat mod, which, given the class features required to use it, would be quite significant.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats
« Reply #87: April 16, 2013, 02:55:53 AM »




Quote

Quote

Gestalt
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are practically a member of two character classes, rather than just one.
Benefit: Select one character class. You gain all the class features (proficiencies and abilities listed in the “special” column of the class writeup) of that class other than spellcasting, as if half your total character level was your class level.  (If you are 1st level, gain only the armor and weapon proficiencies of your selected class until you reach 2nd level.) If you actually have levels in the selected class, you gain class features as if your class level was equal to your actual class level plus one-half of all your other levels.


The verdict: It's not like Unearthed Arcana's gestalt, in that it only grants class features as opposed to HD, BAB, Saving Throws, and Skills.  However, it's still overpowered in that can dramatically increase the power levels of PCs with a plethora of good abilities.  Score some Bardic Music for your Paladin, Sneak Attack and Rogue Talents for your Ranger, or Wild Shape for your Barbarian!



This only says "Select one class" not "One Other class" and specifically says if you have levels in said class you gain features equal to actual lvl plus half character lvls. Thus if you choose your own class then at 1st you have no benefit, but at 2nd you go effectively go up two levels (in features, 2nd level+ (1/2 char lvl), and this continues as you level. So you go (actual/effective) 1/1st, 2/3rd, 3/4th, 4/6th, 5/7th, 6/9th, 7/10th, 8/12th, 9/13th, 10/15th, 11/16th, 12/18th, 13/19th, 14/21st (from this point I'm going by the "Beyond 20th level" section found in the CRB starting on p. 406, and this quote is from p. 407 Quote

Class abilities that have a set, increasing rate, such as a barbarian’s damage reduction, a fighter’s bonus feats and weapon training, a paladin’s smite evil, or a rogue’s sneak attack continue to progress at the appropriate rate.

 so if this has all been a fighter he's getting rediculous numbers of other feats, as well as his other set abilities. Arguably a monks Unarmed damage, AC boost, and fast movement are all increasing at a set rate too (and if going Monk of the Four Winds then has Immortality from 14th level), just as another example of set rate increases in a class.) continuing on now: 15/22nd, 16/24th, 17/25th, 18/27th, 19/28th, 20/30th. So for one feat your fighter could get 5 more combat feats, increasing weapon training, and Bravery +8 (+6 at 22nd, +7 at 26th, and +8 at 30th). And a monk gets 4d8 with unarmed attacks (because if after 2d10 you go 3d6 you lower the max possible damage to 18 from 20 with 2d10, thus its not plus one more d6 after the d10 damages, but double previous d6 dice or 4d6 for a max damage of 24 from level 24 until level 28 where it becomes 4d8) +7 to AC (+6 at 24th, +7 at 28th, and remember this is in addition to Wis bonus and all is added to Touch AC and Flatfooted) and a +100 to speed (+70 at 21st, +80 at 24th, +90 at 27th, and +100 at 30th) and if it is a 4 winds Monk that chose Aspect of the tiger Quote

Aspect of the Tiger: Dark stripes appear on the monk’s
skin, and his face becomes more feline. His eyes become
catlike, with vertical pupils, and his canines enlarge. Once
per hour, the monk can move at 10 times his normal land
speed when he makes a charge and is treated as if he had
the pounce ability. The tiger is swift, fierce, and deadly—a
monk of any alignment can take on the aspect of the tiger.

 then the character needs to take feats to further augment her Charge and Overrun potential  (click to show/hide)
Though admittedly it would be better if you were allowed to homebrew some feats or an archetype to get benefits like this Barbarian variant from the 3.5e cityscape web enhancement 1- Urban Class Features Quote

Streetfighter
The ability to take a blow is valuable, but on the violent and crowded streets of the city, the winner of a brawl or
a duel is often the one who can hit hardest and fastest.
Class: Barbarian.
Level: 7th.
Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain damage reduction at 7th level, or any of the
improvements to damage reduction at higher levels.
Benefit: The barbarian gains the ability to swiftly bring the fight to his foe and to hit him hard.
l At 7th level, the critical threat range of any charge attack he makes, or any attack he makes against a
flat-footed foe, increases by 1. (Thus, a greataxe would threaten a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.) This
ability stacks with the Improved Critical feat or the keen weapon enhancement.
l At 10th level, the barbarian can make a single turn, up to 90 degrees, during a charge.
l At 13th level, the barbarian can charge through squares occupied by his allies or by noncombatants.
l At 16th level, the barbarian can move up to four times his speed when making a charge attack, rather
than double.
l At 19th level, the barbarian acquires a "cleaving charge." If he drops an opponent on a charge attack,
and he has at least 10 feet of movement remaining, he can immediately make a new charge attack
against a second foe. If he drops that foe and still has movement remaining, he can charge a third, and
so on until he either fails to drop a foe, or runs out of movement. All the other standard rules for a charge
attack still apply, including the fact that he must have at least 10 feet of distance to make the charge.
l Even if he somehow gains the ability to make multiple attacks on a charge (such as with the lion's charge
spell from the Spell Compendium), he must drop the foe on the first attack to use this ability. Similarly, he
cannot use this ability and Cleave or Great Cleave in the same round.




I only chose monk as another example because I built a 4 winds monk recently and it was in my mind, but there are many other classes and archetypes/variants that have set rate increase abilities, another that comes to mind but that I don't feel like looking up all the specifics on is the Beast Master Ranger who could possibly have anywhere from thirty lvl 1 animal companions (from all possible animal companions, i.e. druid list), a single lvl 30 animal companion, or any combination of companions whose total levels equal 30. The Rogue would get more sneak attack and talents and trap sense. You get the idea. I'm not saying this is a better method than choosing another class and getting abilities from both, but it does bear thinking about.

Of course if it included spellcasting abilities the obvious choice would be to chose your same class for even quicker access to spells, quicker caster level (though I guess technically this is already one reason for a spellcaster to choose her own class, an extra ten levels can really boost some spells duration/range and the like, and who knows what all else. Not me, I've never played a Caster class other than Ranger, and usually choose variants without spells)

I have gone on long enough now and its probably long past time to shut up lol, sorry for the length.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #88: April 16, 2013, 04:15:55 AM »




Quote

Quote

Backswing Attack
[Horrifically Overpowered, Meta-Attack]
When your attacks bounce off a foe’s armor, you can use the momentum to backswing against another target.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: Three times per day, as a free action, when you make a weapon attack, unarmed attack, or natural weapon attack, and miss your target (but successfully hit the target’s touch AC), you may immediately reroll the attack as an attack against another target. This attack counts as the same attack for purposes of abilities that only work on a single attack roll, and the new target must be one you could have attacked instead of your original target.


The verdict: Not overpowered.  Worse than Perfect Strike, and slightly worse than Great Cleave.


though its flavor is for melee attacks it only says "weapon attack, unarmed attack, or natural attack" a bow is a weapon isn't it? and it says "This attack counts as the same attack for purposes of abilities that only work on a single attack roll" that is most meta attacks as well .. including this one? if both cases are true could you say, attack with a longbow and have the arrow just keep bouncing around until it does hit (applying this feat's "counts as same attack" to This ability's only working on a single attack roll) still doesn't necessarily make it overpowered, just possibly more effective than you seem to be reading it as.



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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats
« Reply #89: April 16, 2013, 11:04:49 AM »




Quote from: Keht Jelicho on April 16, 2013, 02:55:53 AM

Quote

Quote

Gestalt
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are practically a member of two character classes, rather than just one.
Benefit: Select one character class. You gain all the class features (proficiencies and abilities listed in the “special” column of the class writeup) of that class other than spellcasting, as if half your total character level was your class level.  (If you are 1st level, gain only the armor and weapon proficiencies of your selected class until you reach 2nd level.) If you actually have levels in the selected class, you gain class features as if your class level was equal to your actual class level plus one-half of all your other levels.


The verdict: It's not like Unearthed Arcana's gestalt, in that it only grants class features as opposed to HD, BAB, Saving Throws, and Skills.  However, it's still overpowered in that can dramatically increase the power levels of PCs with a plethora of good abilities.  Score some Bardic Music for your Paladin, Sneak Attack and Rogue Talents for your Ranger, or Wild Shape for your Barbarian!



This only says "Select one class" not "One Other class" and specifically says if you have levels in said class you gain features equal to actual lvl plus half character lvls. Thus if you choose your own class then at 1st you have no benefit, but at 2nd you go effectively go up two levels (in features, 2nd level+ (1/2 char lvl), and this continues as you level. So you go (actual/effective) 1/1st, 2/3rd, 3/4th, 4/6th, 5/7th, 6/9th, 7/10th, 8/12th, 9/13th, 10/15th, 11/16th, 12/18th, 13/19th, 14/21st (from this point I'm going by the "Beyond 20th level" section found in the CRB starting on p. 406, and this quote is from p. 407



It says all your other levels. You don't count your levels in the class you're boosting to determine the boost to that class.




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Re: The Pathfinder Guide to Overpowered Feats: The Trial of Owen KC Stephens
« Reply #90: May 05, 2013, 11:56:26 PM »




How overpowered would Class-Specific Archetype be if it would give you abilities of a chosen archetype, but only at 1/2 your level, and then an Improved C-SA feat would upgrade it to full level? Because the idea to allow having multiple archetypes is cool and nice for some classes, but obviously should have a reasonable price, and feats would make it perfect for a Fighter who should have more than enough of them.


« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 11:59:40 PM by ImperatorK »
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