Author Topic: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion (Read 1117 times)
Offline Nunkuruji
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E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Topic Start: August 18, 2012, 11:46:07 AM »
Discuss the E6 PrC System & Handbook
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Offline Nunkuruji
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #1: October 08, 2012, 04:17:40 PM »
Managed to run a few test encounters with my table group. Arena style, 50ft standoff.
Cleric 1 / Stormlord 5
Warblade 1 / Bloodstorm Blade 5
Knight of the Weave 6
Goliath Fighter 2 (dungeoncrasher) / Barbarian / Something / Broken un-erratta Dragonspawn (flying charge bullrush ubercharger, ultimately a somewhat invalid build)
Threw them at some CR 8 - 10 encounters.
Dybbuk - PCs got destroyed, could not easily overcome DR 10/good, some trouble with SR 21 (magic missile missing 1/2 the time), trouble with several energy immunities (energy weapon crystals did nothing), trouble with incorporeal miss chance. At best they had it at 50% of its hp. ~7 rounds in at the surrender point it was 85% healthy with the KotW dead with its flesh being worn by the Dybbuk.
Fossil Megaraptor - took them a while to kill it due to DR10/adamant, but its attack bonus of +7 was non threatening to their 22-30 AC ranges, despite the damage potential if it hit.
Rage Drake - Pounced the KotW, severely damaging him. After recovering, KotW made the mistake of getting back into melee where he got grappled and killed.
Quetzaloatlus - killed monster in 2 player actions, since ubercharger went first. Would be more threatening starting from its natural flying advantage.
Yuan-ti Assassin - Detected by the KotW via constantly buffed see invisibility, then purged by the cleric. Defeated quickly after being exposed. Pretty weak in a straight up fight, probably only lethal in an advantageous circumstance.
No one really took a pure caster out for a spin, so I don't have a lot to gauge on that front.
Initiative is incredibly important in this rules context. The Rage Drake could have 1 shot the KotW on the charge, had it not missed 1 attack. Even the Quez could just potentially end one of the party members in its natural setting via Snatch/grapple or Snatch/drop.
Ultimately, I'm pretty pleased with the format. Decision paralysis was pretty low, especially for brand new characters. Characters felt like they had pretty good options to try during each fight, even if the Dybbuk had immaculate defenses. Aligned weapons are well within reach, so it was just a matter of not having the right tools or preparation. Combat was pretty fast, and encounters felt threatening.
Some CRs are just not quite right unless preferred territory or circumstances, but that's not much to worry about. Next time I get the opportunity to run some encounters, I'll have proper environments. Perhaps some CR10-12 attempts.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #2: May 11, 2016, 03:34:37 PM »
bump out of the blue
I was thinking about end stage near-T.O. PHB2 Rebuilding.
Some of the fast caster PrCs can be rebuilt all the way down.
It isn't easy, and rationalizing it all is quite complicated.
But it is do able.
Strangely enough, most of the hard work of how borkny
full-on rebuilding screws a game, is handled on this thread.
And it isn't borkt, it's fun.
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #3: June 05, 2016, 02:21:46 AM »
Just say no to Rebuilding. If it's allowed, then all the monsters will be doing it because its free...
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Online Chemus
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #4: June 05, 2016, 11:29:17 AM »
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 05, 2016, 02:21:46 AM
Just say no to Rebuilding. If it's allowed, then all the monsters will be doing it because its free...
You mean like how the DM is already able to alter the feats, classes, and skills of a monster? Gee, I wouldn't want the player to be able to do that.
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #5: June 10, 2016, 01:42:08 AM »
Quote from: Chemus on June 05, 2016, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 05, 2016, 02:21:46 AM
Just say no to Rebuilding. If it's allowed, then all the monsters will be doing it because its free...
You mean like how the DM is already able to alter the feats, classes, and skills of a monster? Gee, I wouldn't want the player to be able to do that.
Legally? Without adjusting CR? No.
DCFS/reformat does allow feats though
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Offline Nanshork
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #6: June 10, 2016, 01:02:46 PM »
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 10, 2016, 01:42:08 AM
Quote from: Chemus on June 05, 2016, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 05, 2016, 02:21:46 AM
Just say no to Rebuilding. If it's allowed, then all the monsters will be doing it because its free...
You mean like how the DM is already able to alter the feats, classes, and skills of a monster? Gee, I wouldn't want the player to be able to do that.
Legally? Without adjusting CR? No.
DCFS/reformat does allow feats though
Dungeonscape explicitly calls out that you can give monsters different feats than what is in the statblock.
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Offline SorO_Lost
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #7: June 10, 2016, 02:57:04 PM »
Quote from: Nanshork on June 10, 2016, 01:02:46 PM
Dungeonscape explicitly calls out that you can give monsters different feats than what is in the statblock.
Yeah, if you're the DM and populating the Dungeon.
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Offline Nanshork
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #8: June 10, 2016, 03:05:41 PM »
Quote from: SorO_Lost on June 10, 2016, 02:57:04 PM
Quote from: Nanshork on June 10, 2016, 01:02:46 PM
Dungeonscape explicitly calls out that you can give monsters different feats than what is in the statblock.
Yeah, if you're the DM and populating the Dungeon.
First off, nothing in the text limits it to DM only. It requires DM approval, but so does playing the "Broken un-erratta Dragonspawn" in Nunkuruji's post.
More importantly, did you read what I was responding to? PlzBreakMyCampaign stated that the DM is not able to alter the feats of a monster. I proved this was false. We're already talking about being the DM and populating the dungeon.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem
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Re: E6 PrC System & Handbook Discussion
« Reply #9: June 11, 2016, 02:59:37 PM »
Build-ing a monster yeah is absolutely feat/skills/lifedecisions anything goes.
retraining monster should be only at levels just like pcs, or a visit to the local psyref magic mart-er.
reBUILDing monsters, hmm, that's kinda tricky.
Say like a Wyrmling Dragon couldn't rebuild it's racial hit dice at first.
Then taking class levels immediately after and later could rebuild those.
Racial hit dice after+inbetween that, why couldn't you rebuild those, they're functioning like class levels?
So like even an Adult Dragon could rebuild most (but not all) of it's rhd.
SS Racial progressions couldn't be rebuilt (merely hi c.o. use of PAO).
Acquired templetes like Half-fey also could not.
I don't see why not, I'm not staring at rules-texts though.
I think you'd separately have to recalculate a monster's CR,
while there's little incentive to rebuild specifically around CR,
you can do that (and rather advantageously c.o.-wise).
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